If I Use AI to Build a Website, Do I Still Need a Designer?

You asked, "Hey, can I run this by you?" And then what happened? Phew. What happened? Um, well, let's just say that I told you not to be nice. Yeah. I was like, "P- be honest," which I... You definitely were.

Welcome to the Marketing Team of One podcast, where we have conversations about the issues one-person marketing teams face when trying to meet their goals with limited time and budgets. Now here's your hosts, Eric and Mike. So today, got a fun change of pace here. Got Ashley, our awesome producer, is getting in front of the cameras here.

Yeah. 'Cause I think she has a really good, um, I don't wanna say cautionary tale, but, uh, it's been a, it's been a fun thing you've been going through over the last two years, um, two years. A learning experience. It hasn't been two years. It's been weeks, not years. It feels like two years. I'd love to, I guess, to set it up a little bit is you help us here at Page Design with so many different things.

You've got a really good idea of all the different things that we're doing on the marketing side of things, websites, marketing tasks, and everything, right? Yeah. And, um, and so armed with that knowledge- Mm-hmm And knowing that what's possible or what people talk about with AI, um, you thought you could put that to action, right?

I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about that and tell everybody. For sure. So, um, to preface too, I've kind of always been in random marketing roles regardless of positions I've held over the years. Yeah. So I've had these glimpses into websites or marketing campaigns or not so much logo and design, uh, until I started working here of course, but that's always been something that I've never really fully immersed myself in, but I've always seen a lot of.

So, yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, what do they say? Master of... Or I don't remember the term, but anyway. Jack of all trades. Yeah. Yeah. Jack of all trades, master of none, though. Yeah. So yes, I, um, have seen a lot here at Page, and I have a friend who I was doing some side, like, administrative work for recently, noticed that his website seemed to be out of date a little bit.

Um, and I decided that I'd ask if he wanted some help to update it, make it look better. Yeah. Um, and he seemed very interested in it. And so I was like, "You know what? I saw Claude and Claude Design and all these, you know, AI tools have been talking about, uh... You can build a website," right? Mm-hmm. So with the knowledge that I have working here, I was like, "I bet I could help him.

Um, I'm gonna go ahead and try." Yeah. Yeah. So, um, my initial thought is, "Let me see if I can get Claude to put together a mock-up." Mind you, I have creative freedom- Mm-hmm ... with this because he doesn't know really what he wants. He just knows he wants it to look better. I know that f- what I've seen, I know what I could consider better based on the work that we've done.

Yeah. Um, so with that information, I kind of put in a prompt saying to Claude like, "Hey, I want to build a website. Uh, I want it to look sleek. I want it to look professional. It's supposed to be around health and fitness." It has, um, you know, this person works with these types of people, and it spit out something really what I would consider fresh and polished looking- Mm-hmm

that I was impressed with. Yeah. Um, I'm like, "Okay, yeah, let's, this is great," you know? Yeah. I was surprised because I didn't really know what I was going to get. Yeah. It is kind of a black box, right? You're, you're gonna throw some stuff in there, you, you don't know, especially on those first ones. Yeah. You don't know what you're gonna get back.

Especially too with limited information that was provided, because I just kind of gave it these buzzwords, if you will- Yep ... like sleek, cool, fitness, um, and it, it populated something that I thought... Also, I forgot to mention, I did provide it to look at his website- Mm-hmm ... to kind of, um, dissect what was going on with it currently.

And, um, this is something that I've now learned with using tools like this, is like you have to feed it lots of different information to help it understand what you want to get out of it, right? Yep. Um, so yeah. So anyways, it populates this really nice looking page, and I'm like, "Oh, this is great." Um, so I ended up sending that to my friend Spencer, and he's elated.

"Yes, let's do it. This is great. Awesome Now I'm like, "Uh-oh, he agreed." Actually, I mean, before we move forward, I was, I was just curious, like, what did you see in the existing website that made you think, oh, it's, it needed an update? Like, w- what, what stood out to you? What ... Did, did he mention things that he didn't like, too?

Like, what, what kinda got that genesis point of we need to do something new? He did not mention anything. Okay. Um, I went on the webpage and it just ... It was, uh, really hard to read. It communicates the point across what he does. Like- Yeah ... he works with fitness individuals. Now he's kind of, like, changed his positioning, but the website had a lot of bulkiness to it.

Um, his picture was, uh, fixated on the back. Mm-hmm. So the text when you would scroll would scroll over, but the photo would remain, so at certain points it was really hard to read. Yeah. Uh, there wasn't a lot of call to action. Mm-hmm. There weren't any links, really. I think there was one link to book a call with him.

Mm-hmm. But then that takes you to a form. So I just felt that there could be a more successful way of getting clients to him, and this goes back to us all working together and me seeing, okay, we've done this work for people where, uh, y- there's more interaction involved. Mm-hmm. There's more exploration involved on a page, and I felt that his page was, was limited in offering that to people.

Mm-hmm. Um, I did like his testimonial page, but then some of the testimonials maybe were just a photo with no, uh, actual testimonial connected. Mm-hmm. So there was a lot of pieces that were not fully completed. Yeah. And that was the biggest inc- the biggest reason why I offered to help, because I'm like, oh, well, I know that if he just has copy for this person, I can add it.

Yep. If he, um, m- doesn't have his marketing Like, check this box to receive marketing emails. Like, let's get that going so that he can take the emails he's collected and actually use them for something. Yeah, yeah. Um, that's something I've learned way before I worked here is, like, you gotta have permission- Yeah, yeah

uh, if you wanna be legit. Yep, yep. So you kind of floated this idea, showed him, showed him what it was like and, and he's, he bought in. He's like- Yeah ... and then so you're like, "All right. I'm here. I'm armed with my knowledge. I've got AI tools at my ready. I can totally do this," right? Like, that was- Yeah ... and then, you, and then were you a little scared?

Or you're, like, excited about the idea of- I wasn't- ... moving it forward? Yeah, I wasn't scared of the task. I was intimidated by ... Now mind you, with this episode, I think we're trying to convey more so, like, what a marketing team of one might- Yeah, yeah ... do. In this instance, I was, I'm charging, right, for this service.

Yeah. So one, I was a little intimidated about what do I charge, uh- Mm-hmm ... for the, my time. Yes. Because I'm not a professional, and I knew that. Yeah. And I, that was very clearly communicated. So I wanted to be reasonable, and then more so I was intimidated by the estimation of time it's gonna take. Yeah. So, um- I mean, AI, it's gonna take you, like, 10 minutes, right?

Right? You'd think. Well, you just create a website and you're done, right? Yeah, you would think, for sure. Um, but I knew from us all working together and working with clients that it takes time to get information 'cause it's not a one-way street. You have to collect information- Mm-hmm ... as much as you have to create- Yes

a product, right? Yep. So I knew that I was going to have to talk to him to get ... Well, I knew I was gonna have to interview him- Yeah ... to get a basic, like, understanding of things. I knew that we were gonna have to write copy. I knew that, um, the design choices would take time. I also knew that, uh, Claude, because I was using Wix specifically- Mm

and I didn't wanna mess with any kind of coding- Yep ... um, that it couldn't go in there and do it for me, but it could, it straight up said, like, "I can tell you step by step how to make these changes to make it look like what I gave you." Yeah, yeah. So I knew that was gonna take time. The whole project, I said maybe, like, 20 hours-ish- Yeah

is what I was feeling, and we agreed that I would do the homepage first, and that was a good testing point to say, "Hey, do you like this? Do you not like this?" Um, and then, uh, I, we, so we agreed on hours. I was like, "If I go over, if I feel like I'm going over, I'll let you know beforehand." Um, and then I got to work, and yeah, it, it started to feel good.

Yeah. Um, I was like, "Oh, this looks just like the thing." Like- Yeah. "Okay." Yeah. "Yeah, here's... Oh, great. Claude knows exactly what I'm need, or what I need to search for, and I'm able to find it. Awesome." You know, so I just start plugging in, doing the things and the stuff. Uh, part of this too was that I hadn't interviewed Spencer yet.

Mm-hmm. So with this beautiful page that it just made up text for me and whatever, I had to go back in and re-Claude and- Mm-hmm ... re-evaluate based on, um Uh, I used his Instagram page- Mm-hmm ... to pull information from. So I was just, I was just reaching out for every, every bit and piece of knowledge I could find on Spencer to pull to create- E- everything that's arm's length, that you can easily get in and- Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, mind you, that's not necessarily the most professional way, but I can imagine that, again, like, if your CEO or somebody, your leadership is like, "Just update our website," and maybe you don't have pages or whatever and nobody has time to talk to you about what they want to say- Yeah ... you're gonna have to figure it out, you know?

Yeah. Uh, documents, um, any kind of video, any- anything that has relevance to hi- to Spencer is what I used, and so I think the same would be for, like, a company. Yeah. Any, any relevant messaging, whatever. And then I believe I spent about six or seven hours on that first run-through. Yeah. And then that's when I came to you, Mike.

And just like most things- ... you bring it to me, and I'm gonna overthink it and everything like that. So you told me this was going on. Mm-hmm. And you're like, "Hey, I wanna try this," and I was like, "Yeah, no, I think this is a, would be a really good, good test of things," and you asked, "Hey, can I run this by you?"

And then what happened? Phew. What happened? Um, well, let's just say that I told you not to be nice. Yeah. I was like, "Be honest," which I, you definitely were. Um. The, what ended up happening is first I was asking you about design feedback, and we ended up not really talking about any of that. Um, we- Yeah, it was very minimal, right?

We ended up talking a lot about, what is he trying to say? Mm. What is the point of this site? And you opened up a new realm of thinking for me with that conversation that we had. It was a lot of, okay, um, so what does he do then? And is that conveyed in the moment that you land on this page? Yeah. And it wasn't.

Yeah. And so that was the very first thing that we talked about. Then we continued to talk about this journey of sorts of, how does a person land on a page? How do you instantly convince this person they need to be here? And then how do you take them through explaining the, the intricacies of their problem and solving their problem and proving that the problem can be solved and all of this stuff?

And this is pre, like, um, giving me that template. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we really dove into rethinking copy and- Yeah ... what the copy can do because- Um, what I learned is that copy is design. Yeah. So- Yeah ... the copy is just as powerful, and honestly, kind of the leading force of the website, I would say. Mm-hmm. Um, to the point where you made me realize, like, yeah, what I had on there, I didn't really even wanna read.

Like, if I'm looking at it from a user perspective- Yeah ... because it was, there's too much, it wasn't organized. So that got tore down. Um, I think I wrote about two notes of pages just- Yeah, you were- ... scribbling ... you were scribbling furiously. Furiously. Yep, yep. Yeah. Yeah. And then towards the end of that conversation, you gave me a small bit of insight about the design, which was that you said it looked a little beige.

Yeah. I think I used the term beige moms. Yeah. Yeah. So- Like, it was very, um... There's a certain aesthetic, like especially if in, well, we talked about it earlier. Mm-hmm. It's the, it's the Mormon wives show. It's, uh, there's no color. Uh, it's all, there's a lot of... It looks classy. For where, where, uh, this guy was going, it just didn't seem like a match.

It seemed like, yes, it was elegant, it was sleek It was, it was all the words that you put into Claude w- yes, it, it was that, but that's where all the trends are going too, so I think that's where a lot of that kind of crept in, so. Yeah. It was like, there's no question that it looked good. Mm-hmm. It... Like, the, the...

They were all tasteful decisions, but they weren't necessarily the right aesthetic for the service being offered. Correct. Yeah. And w- the point that you made across was, um, to me, one, I will say that I did ask Claude to give me two different fonts for the copy and for the headings, right? Yeah. To... So it chose specific fonts based on the, the word prompts that I gave it.

Yeah. But what I was enlightened by your critique is that it didn't have a personality. Yeah. And that personality is really important, especially since this website represents an individual. And so I had to do some searching, which, oh my God, that's a whole nother, like, that's a whole sea if, of chaos of searching for a couple of fonts to, like, go together.

Oh, gosh. There's so many. If you're just presented with that menu- Mm-hmm. Um, I don't know, if you've looked in Canva and tried to go... There is no bottom to the fonts list in Canva. Oh. There's no bottom. There's no bottom. You can keep going. It, I... Like, you could spend hours. Gosh. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah. So I thought, like, again, back to the fact that I work here, I, I recognize that the fonts need to work together.

They need to be legible. They need to, they need to convey kind of like a personality. I found something... Oh, another tip you gave me that I really liked was duplicate the pages. Mm-hmm. Present one with the r- the safe text- Yep ... and one with the more interesting. Yeah. Uh, I tried to do that, but also in this whole process, Wix decided to corrupt an, the, all the work that I had done on one page.

Oh, geez. So everything got spread fully across the entire screen. Luckily, I duplicated it- Yep, yep ... because you told me to. Yep. Um, so that was another thing is, uh, in that moment I was like, "Oh, God, what, what do I do?" Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like I, you know, I put six, seven hours of work and now another three or four hours and, oh, crap.

Yeah. So I was lucky that I had the fail-safe, um, but had I... You know, it's, it could be a waste of time. Totally. Like if you do all this work and you don't know how to fix it, then you might have to start over. 'Cause I did try to ask AI for that, but, like, how to fix. Yeah. Right? Um, but I wasn't able to get quite the answer that exactly what I needed- Yep

because it didn't understand the tool exactly. It can't hold your hand, like- No, no ... through it all. Yeah. You have to have some kind of, like, intelligence - Yeah, yeah ... to problem solve. I think I had the benefit of not really asking you too many questions about the, this client you had- Mm-hmm ... um, ahead of time, so I could come into, like, looking at the website as if I was a person who landed there for whatever reason, right?

Mm-hmm. Um, and I remember reading the copy and thinking, "I'm not exactly sure what he, what does he help me with?" Like, I get the idea that it's, it's somewhat fitness related, but, like, I, I wasn't exactly sure. And, and then the other thing was it seemed like I couldn't tell if this was more of a personality driven brand- Mm

or if it was like, "No, I'm, I'm, I'm providing a helpful service." Mm. You know? There's a, there's a difference there, and I think it was straddling a line that I wasn't quite sure. And so I remember one of the first things I wanted, I think I, one of the first things I told you is like, right up front- Mm-hmm ... we wanna know what he, who he i- not so much who he is, but what he does and how he can help.

Yeah. And th- so that was a big thing that I thought. Even after we went through the whole page, I was still was, like, a little unclear on... I, I think I asked you a bunch of questions about, "Well, what does he actually do? Like, what's the actual service? What is the, what is he helping people get through?" And I think that really helped sharpen things for the next round of things too.

Yeah. Once we did that initial run through and I was able to go through the copy with those thoughts put into place, the, it, it clicked a lot more for me- Yeah ... for sure. So we have our little session, and you've got pages of notes to go through and everything. You try and get into Wix, and Wix blows up your page.

I mean, where do you go from there? I got the feedback from you for the copy. Mm-hmm. It helped me tremendously, and then I remember coming back to you the next day like, "Hey, I made the updates based on what you told me." Mm-hmm. "And what do you think?" And so you're reading through, you're like, "Okay, okay. Hold on.

I have something for you." And I remember you go in the office, and you hand me this notebook- Yeah ... that is the StoryBrand- Yeah ... uh, workbook, I think? Yeah Or something. So if you- Sorry, StoryBrand ... so I mean, we've gone through the StoryBrand training, and we had a workbook that I got s- six, seven years ago now.

Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, I was like, "This, this here will help." I think it had a lot of, a lot of it was structure for the page, right? Yeah. Like, what, how you should- Go about tying together and kind of telling the story on this homepage. It helped me figure out ... Because I, I remember telling you something doesn't feel right.

Mm-hmm. Like, now I understand a person needs to use this page in a certain way, it needs to convey these certain things, these are the topics I need to cover, but something feels out of place or in the wrong order. I think I was trying to figure out which section needed to go where. Yeah. And that was kind of the inspiration for you handing me this guide, right?

It makes me realize that every single thing I did, I, I hated. Ev- everything I did, I was like, "This sucks. I don't even like this section." Like, like unrecoverable? I deleted three sections that I had spent- A lot of time on ... hours on. Yeah. Because I'm like, "This doesn't make sense- Yep ... anymore." So that was kinda like a punch in the face a little bit.

So my next step was, okay, I have these sections in this book that can apply to pretty much any single person that has a website. Yep. Let me interview Spencer. Let me use this as the guidelines to ask him questions, to interview him, record this interview, and then use that transcript to input into Claude again- Yeah

to give me the points that I need to make for the sections. Now my website page sections are clearly defined, so I'm not like, "Which ... Where do I put this picture? Where does this text go?" Like, "Why does this offer feel weird?" It, it didn't feel weird when I interviewed him, right? Yep. Um, and then I was able to create from the interview, um, the master document of copy, which I did not have until that point.

Yep. Um, which I, I learn now, like, please do that because- Mm-hmm ... it saves your butt every time. Yeah. Um, and then that was when I came back to you again, and I think you were like, "Okay, yeah, this is a lot ... This is, this makes more sense." It was, it was much better. Yeah. Yeah. Much better. Things were more concise.

Then you gave me a few more pointers on, like, laying out the copy in a more clear way. Mm-hmm. How can I utilize the information? Like, now it just came down to creative uses of sections and design. That's when it got a little bit more design critique-y- Mm-hmm ... than it, than ... It was probably the, what you expected the first time we met, right?

Yes. I expected to be told, "Hey, add a picture here. Maybe make this line bigger." You know? Yeah. I was expecting visual candy. Yep. Like, how can I, how can I paint, put lipstick on the pig? Totally. Totally. Like Yeah. But what I learned is, like, okay, there's a lot more you need to think about. I've learned a lot from this single experience, but then it just opens more doors for more things to do.

Yeah. Like, we're not done. Um, it, you know, I- I know that once, 'cause we're pretty near completion for this page. Yeah. I'm working after work, you know, on my spare time. He's checking when he has spare time. So it's, it's a matter of our ability to, like, push forward together. Totally. Totally. Um, but yeah, it's a lot of work.

A lot of it's kind of like just typical, like, the way people scan a page, right? They're gonna do kind of like an F or a Z shape pattern at your header, right? They're gonna go across, and they're gonna start going down, and then they'll start scrolling, and you wanna ... Yeah, y- the, the imagery can help enhance and support the message, but you don't want it to get in the way either, so there, there's a lot of kind of learned tricks that you get over time and stuff.

And y- so yeah, you were taking a lot of that. But even, uh, I think we were also, like, there was ... I think there was something really ... I know there's one section where you're trying to do, like, this, like, like in, in StoryBrand terms they call it the plan, but almost every website has it. It's that how it works section, right?

Yeah. And they try and get it down to, like, three or four steps to really make it seem as easy as possible- Mm-hmm ... for the person who's browsing that site to envision what it'll w- what, what the process is and how they can, you know, succeed w- with this program, right? Yeah. And I remember you had good copy there, but we, uh, I think we probably spent a little time, like, well, no, here, what we should do is use this as a headline, m- keep it really short- Mm-hmm

make that bold, then put text underneath there instead of just running and saying, "We're gonna do this thing for you." Yeah. Like, a- and so, so, like, we didn't really touch, like, specific fonts or anything like that. Mm-hmm. But there's, like, a hierarchy to it, making it kind of flow. So, and, so even those little micro details- Yeah

w- were design things that we got into. Yeah. And also, like, a side point to that is that from learning more about, um, ADA regulations- Oh, yeah ... why headers are so important. Yeah. Why text is so important, why all of these things need to be laid out a certain way, because that's another thing that, um, the initial design I got did create the vision, but it didn't necessarily say, like, you need a header box here and text box here and- Yeah

so again, learning through us that these are considerations that need to be thought about when you're making a website too- Yeah ... because w- especially with how things are go- I mean, mind you, he's not collecting data or doing anything, but- Yeah ... um, ultimately this is knowledge that I didn't even really have until more recently.

Yeah. And that's just only going to get more important as websites continue to, to exist- Yeah ... I think. Yeah. So I know that at least when the time comes, that my initial layout is going to help somebody succeed versus having to blow it up and start over again. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's, oh, a terrible thought.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. After all that work, yeah. Oh my gosh. For sure. So anyways, yes, we looked at all this design stuff. You, you helped me bring it to a place where Spencer is very happy now. Awesome. We have a little bit of, um, we have a few more things to work through- Mm-hmm ... as far as making sure he's happy with everything.

This is a lot to do with his bandwidth and avail- a- availability. Yeah. He doesn't have a lot of time to meet Uh, he's, that man is busy from the morning, the moment he wakes up until 9:00 at night. Yeah. So we have to schedule as things allow. And that's another thing is like there is a lot of check backs and check-ins when you don't have all the information you need- Yep

uh, out the gate. I did not, and I continue to not have information that, uh, that is... Even little details like, "Hey, what's your TikTok account?" Because I need to add that link to the email and to the webpage. Yeah. You know, it's all a work in progress at this point, right? You've got through some significant milestones already.

Mm-hmm. Um, but like reflecting back, like what have you learned? What do you think you've learned so far in- I mean, would you do this again? I have learned so many things, Mike. Tell me. Tell me more. Um, yeah, I think I would do it again. I actually discover... The one big thing I learned is that I, I really like the adventure of k- building up somebody's site.

I enjoyed, I enjoyed the creative parts of, um... Now mind you, again, creative freedom makes a lot more fun- Big time. Big time ... because there weren't any rules. Yep. I enjoyed taking a, a vision that I had for someone and turning it into a page that really communicated what this person did. Yep. Um, and that person seeing it and feeling very excited about- Yeah

what they saw, and knowing that it's going to be a huge benefit and opportunity for them to get more of what they're looking for, more clientele, to communicate what they do better. Yeah. Um, that was the biggest thing, is that it felt like aha moments when we've had the perfect two short sentences that literally explain it all, right?

Yeah. But that took, uh, hours of thinking about. Yeah. I learned that i- I started backwards. I started at really what should probably be the end. Okay. Um, the design and the pretty bells and whistles don't need to come in the beginning. Yeah. I, I learned that I need to figure out what is the layout gonna look like, and what copy is gonna go in there- Mm-hmm

and what information do I need to fully convey this message, what is the message, your guys's favorite term, who is your audience? You know- Yeah. Yeah ... that, and it, it's something that is w- worth communicating repeatedly. Mm-hmm. Because the other thing that you had said in that initial run-through was, is this about, is this website about him, or is it about what he solves?

Yeah. And if that's the case, then we want to speak to the problem, not to convey who this person is. Yeah. Um, like, so that, that helped me s- figure out, like, what it feels like to be in the seat of the viewer. Yeah. Uh, I learned that there's a lot to do with websites. AI, uh, Claude specifically, 'cause that's all I used, was helpful i- in, as much information that I could provide it.

Yeah. But I didn't know all the things that I needed to provide it, so it could only do what it could do, and- It kind of fills in the gaps where, where it doesn't, where you didn't provide information. Yeah. And I was thinking about this, that sure, you could, um, understand that information and go seek out things to help it do a better job- Yeah

of building, but you still have to learn about it. You still have to take the time. So I think about, like- Sure. AI could be a great assistant, but if you don't have a guide to help you understand really what needs to be thought of first, second, third, fourth, and follow that guide, that you could be lost in a loophole forever.

Yeah. And if you also don't know how to solve your problems on your own, like, AI can only help you so much. Yeah. Sure, it could put out, like, a nice finished product, but do you know how to fix that finished product- Yeah ... if you have to change it? Yeah. 'Cause you talk about websites are always evolving. It's never done.

Yeah. So you mentioned that you feel like you kind of addressed it backwards. Mm-hmm. Like, and so if I was gonna simplify, I'm greatly simplifying the process, but really it was like, "Hey, Claude, I wanna design an awesome website. Oh, now I need to, I want to tweak the design of this thing. Oh, now I, no, actually, I need to change the copy.

Oh, now, well, no, now I gotta interview them." Like, now- ... like, if you were gonna do this again from, like, knowing what you know now, what, what kind of basic steps- Mm ... what order would you follow doing it again? I know for sure that I would need to understand the audience and the message. Mm-hmm. That's the, the big picture.

Then I need to talk to this person and collect all the materials about them, and who they are, and what they do, their pictures, their documents, their, all their usernames, all, everything about them. Yeah. Their whole personal- or their business or whatever it is, right? Then I need to structurally plan the pages- Based on the way that I want to communicate that information.

Mm-hmm. And then I would spend all of the time fine-tuning the copy, making sure the copy makes sense, because the copy is kind of like code. You, it, it's laid out in a way that you just plug and play into the, the website pages, and then after all that's good and done, you can play with the fun stuff, and add- The fun stuff

add the pictures, and the little details, and the fun little thing that shakes, you know- Yeah ... when you put your mouse over it or whatever. Um, I, I think that that is, from a non-web person's perspective, that would be the better way to go about it. Mm-hmm. Because then I would not have to call Spencer every three days.

So much of our job is actually, actually just organization. A lot of it is, like, organizing the thoughts of the, the person you're working with. Yeah. You know? Like, they're probably pretty clear, they think they're pretty clear in their mind about what they do and what they need to, out of a website and everything, but, like, taking, gathering and then organizing, and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Yeah, it's so, so important on the front end of things. Um- Yeah ... and I think you could use AI at every one of those checkpoints to get you to a, a point. So you're not doing all this, we're not saying get rid of AI to this stuff. AI is a good asset. But following some logical steps to get it done, instead of saying, "Hey, I want to build a new website."

Mm-hmm. I do this. I mean, we had a recent episode where we talked about all the different things you have to consider in a website, right? And so just in your journey and everything, I, you've touched on a lot of them, but not, like, not all of them, and you know that a homepage is not everything that needs to be done.

There's a big whole journey. As we talked through this, and the reason, uh, one big reason I thought it was a great idea that we get on the couch and talk this out, is to give just more of a reality check. Mm-hmm. That, that, yes, you hear so much about AI and all the things it can provide, um, but that doesn't mean, to Eric's, uh, dream of-

being on a beach somewhere and, you know, smoking his candy cigar, that, that, you, it, it's not realistic. The reality check is that there's, to do things, and do things well, and do things right, AI can help a ton- Mm-hmm ... but it do- it, but it's only gonna give you what you feed it. Mm-hmm. And so all, at every step of the way, gathering the right information and giving the right instructions is really what's gonna pr- make sure that down the road, that all these different things you talked about.

Like, 'cause we, you didn't even get into maintainability- Mm ... or, like, performance or any of these other things that, or go into a website. Or, really, the website is just one piece. Yeah. There's all the other things that drive traffic to the website- Mm ... or the functionality that, or operational functionality that can help.

You know, like collecting payments, scheduling meetings- Yeah ... like all those things. Like- Yeah ... so I think this is just a really good reality check on, like, yes, the promise of AI, and it can do a lot of great things, but it's not going to just easy button your way to a website. Yeah. I will say I'm very critical of AI.

A lot of people are going to be presented with no option. They're going to be Encouraged strongly to use AI. Yeah. And I think that it is smart to be practical about how you use it so that you're not getting stuck in, like, AI psychosis of- Yes ... doing a bunch of things over and over again with no real result.

Yep. You have to be thoughtful about your discernment of what you're prompting. Yep. You have to be knowledgeable about what it is that your goal is. And so for my experience with all of this, I feel like I, uh, I feel like I learned a lot about that, too, of- Yeah ... of okay, yes, this can help, but yeah, like you said, it's

There's so many things to think about, and realistically, a web developer, a web designer, they know more. And they can do it a lot quicker. And I knew that going into this, so I, I think that I s- I ... It also gave me a lot more respect for people that do this every day- Yeah ... because I see us as a, as a page design p- pump out things in a month- Mm-hmm

in a week, and, you know, like, doing stuff so quickly that y- you have the system down, and that's, that's amazing because you know how to work with the human part of it to pull the information- Mm-hmm ... that you need to make it happen. Yeah. So I don't think AI can do that, and I don't really know how it could do that because there's always gonna need to be that touch of communication between individuals wanting the work and creating the work.

Yeah. So- Absolutely ... for sure. It's- Yeah ... it's been a journey, Mike. For sure. Well, Ashley, thanks for coming on. I can't wait to see where this project goes and as it develops, and hopefully you can come back and share with everybody. Yeah. Well, I work here, so I'm here every day. Awesome. Perfect. We just don't even need to book it.

Just- Nope. ... fire up the cameras, let's go. Awesome. Sounds good. Thank you, Mike. All right. Thanks, Ash. See ya. Thanks for tuning in. For more information and other episodes, subscribe to the Marketing Team of One podcast on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify podcast networks. You can also chat with us on the r/marketingteamofone subreddit or visit marketingteamofone.com to learn more.