Your Marketing Team Is About to Get Cut (Here's Why That's a Mistake)

So you're s- saying communications drives revenue? Communication drives revenue. You're, you're want to connect those two dots pretty clearly. I would bet a million dollars on it. Whoa. Nice. Putting your money where your mouth is. Do, does anybody have a Poly market account? I can, I can set something up. Uh, should we, can we figure that out?

Yeah.

Welcome to the Marketing Team of One podcast, where we have conversations about the issues one-person marketing teams face when trying to meet their goals with limited time and budgets. Now here's your hosts, Eric and Mike. Today, we got a fun topic. Oh. That's good. I think most marketers will probably groan when I say what the topic is.

Yeah. But it, I really think it comes down to the idea of ROI, return on investment. Whoa. Always a slippery, slippery concept for certain- Yeah ... people, especially- Yeah. Speaking of slippery. Speaking of slippery. Right on cue. Perfect. I mean, a lot of it, like, is, you know, in your- if you're in the marketing space or marketing and communications in general, right?

Right. Like, like, you're, it's a lot of work, but, like, is that, is it really driving revenue, is the, is what probably a lot of CEOs and a lot of, you know, CFOs- Mm-hmm ... are really trying to get to. Like- Well- ... we're spending all this stuff. Um, and I think now it's getting even tighter, right? Like, like, if we think about the state of the world.

Oh, my feed is dark. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people out there that are looking for work, honestly. I mean- Yeah ... there's been a lot of layoffs, and there's been a lot of change in the marketing and communications departments of bigger organizations that I follow, and it's a little scary because you can see when revenue is down, one of the first departments that they cut is marketing and communications and/or one of those.

Yeah. One of those, and it seems like- Advertising and- Yeah ... all that stuff, yeah. 'Cause the ROI. Ah, it's hard to... I don't know. Yeah. I'm, I'm just spending a lot of money. I don't see that turning into anything. Yeah, like, that return- Yeah ... isn't, isn't evident, right? Right. But does it need to be that way? Like, do you, uh, do you think that maybe there's some things in there that people aren't thinking, especially if they're CEO or CFO, like, the- Yeah.

I think that there's a lot of issues around... I mean, it's one of those weird things. In a recession or, or, you know, in, in dark economic times, that's actually when you probably need to Invest more in that. Yeah. That's, it's counterintuitive. It's kind of that same psychological- Yeah ... thing that in the stock market, when prices are low, that's when you buy, you know?

Yep. When the, when the market's down, that's when you start buying. When it's up, that's when you sell, and it's, you know, it's counterintuitive. It's very- Yeah ... difficult to train your brain that way. But, you know, honestly, I don't think I'm, uh, I'm just speaking from my experience- Oh, yeah ... and what I know.

Yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah. But we've had a guest on the show before that I think probably has a little bit better insights into this. Oh, yeah. Oh. Remember Sheila? I do. Sheila Johnston. She's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. She's awesome. We should probably have her talk about this. I wonder what she thinks about this. Yeah, I think, I think it's gonna be a w- way better, more well-informed- Yes

take on, on this revenue conversation. Yeah. I like this idea. Let's pull her in. All right. We should do that. Hey. Hello. Hi, Sheila. Hi, Sheila. Welcome. I just appeared. It's unbelievable. I- I wish we could just will e- every guest into existence. It'd just be so much easier. Right. Uh, thank you for being in the portal-

and ready to be. The marketing portal. Yeah, yeah. There's nowhere else I'd rather be. Yeah. Awesome. Wow. Awesome. So we brought you in 'cause I think you have some real- you've crystallized some thoughts about how communications can be seen as a revenue, as revenue driver. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on that.

Thanks, Mike. I, I have very strong opinions on the power of communication. Yeah. Especially as it relates to an organization's success, long-term success. Yeah. I've seen associations and nonprofits bring in a communications or marketing strategy after the fact. Maybe there's an event coming up or an issue they have to change the narrative on.

Mm-hmm. But it's not necessarily always built in to the strategic plan or into the business plan. Yeah. And if you think about what communications can do, it can be a driver of positive culture. Mm-hmm. It can be a driver of revenue. It's a driver of brands, especially in marketing. Mm-hmm. It's, it's basically the, the lost key that's never found- Mm-hmm

until it's needed to. Yeah. So I've really been studying and embrace organizations that put communications as a forethought- Yeah ... into their business mo- business plan and business modeling, and it's those types of organizations- That succeed sooner- Yeah ... and have a longer life cycle. Interesting. So they've, they've put in that, hey, communications isn't this thing that we bolt onto everything that we do.

It's, it's built into the fabric of who they are as an organization. Exactly. Yeah. Now, you'll see this sometimes with CEOs, how they speak to their staff- Mm-hmm ... how they design budgets, uh, where the investment in marketing c- and communications lands. It's not the first budget to get cut. Mm-hmm. It's actually the first budget that's fully funded.

Yeah. And over time, you've actually seen this in terms of having both a marketing and communications department, not just lumping them both together. They're two very different things. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But communications, when you think about how it relates to a business, is the glue that keeps customers coming back.

Yeah. Yeah. It supports brand, you know, and that's something that will always live inside people's head, is the brand itself. And the only way to really keep that supported, and what we're strong advocates for, is keeping that, the lights on, as it were, and keeping that constant stream of communication out to their audience.

100%. And when each of us or, or companies are designing that brand package, the first thing that we look at is, well, how much equity do you have in your brand? Mm-hmm. Brand equity is trust. Mm-hmm. Brand equity is what gets customers in the door, your revenue sales up. Mm-hmm. And I'm sure you both will agree that when brand equity is considered as a foundational pillar of an organization, it's much easier to achieve over time.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. We did a retreat, and, uh, we came up with our mission and values and, you know, core beliefs and everything. Is that enough? Is it... It's done. Checked it off. Nice. Do you want my true answer? I want the true answer, yeah. I'd love, I'd love to hear the answer to this, yeah. Obviously, that's the first place to start.

Mm-hmm. But it has to be acted on every day, in every communication, in every experience, in every stakeholder that interacts with your business. Yeah. So it almost sounds like you're really, y- um, you're describing this almost like it's a part of the infrastructure of the organization. 100%, part of the infrastructure of an organization.

Yeah. Everyone has to buy into the fact that marketing, communications- Isn't a byproduct of success, it is the success Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, the most successful companies, the Fortune 500 companies, the brands that we use the most, there's zero question about what that means if you are a consumer. Yeah.

That same mentality should be brought to associations and nonprofits or any business- Yeah ... that's wanting to, to exceed their revenue goals. Yeah. And that, that can help? The, like, that approach to things can actually drive revenue? It can and will drive revenue. Wow. Okay. I mean- So you're s- saying communications drives revenue.

Communication drives revenue. You're, you're want to connect those two dots pretty clearly. I would bet a million dollars on it. Whoa. Nice. Putting your money where your mouth is. Yeah. Do, do we have a Polymarket account? I can, I can set something up. Uh, should we, can we figure that out? Yeah. That would be a fun interactive thing.

I mean, if you think about it, w- um, a, a model, for instance, is why do people follow leaders? It's because they believe in what you say and how you say it. It is a badge or a sleeve that a leader wears where it's building trust. So why not build that trust ahead of time- Yeah ... and own it when you are in your formational months, or even during a pivot- Mm-hmm.

Hmm ... as something that's the most important key to success? Very interesting, yeah. Do you, do you think that this is a, is just innate in some leaders? Or do you think that, do you think that people can be brought into it? Is it a... Can you nurture that? Can you build that in leaders, in that maybe a, a mindset shift for them?

Yes, and I would actually argue respectfully -- Yeah ... that, uh, communications is ever-changing. Yeah. You have, like, your mission and your values and your vision. You have that foundation, but how you apply it might change over time. Yeah. An association might be faced with a PR campaign, and you have to take an angle of your, of your communication strategies and apply it, right?

Mm-hmm. You always go back- Hmm ... to basics with it, but it's what is your North Star- Yeah ... in terms of how you model your foundation to continue to achieve your brand equity and build it over time. So the way you communicate is your North Star. It is your North Star. And so, so that means that that North Star can also tell you that if you're- you're heading towards it, let's, let's say that's where we're going, that if something is diverting you from that, that that's a good filter for other, for decisions you make too, right?

Like, if this is what we're communicating to everybody, and this is counter to that, the, the, so the North Star keeps you true- It keeps you true ... and keeps you, um, in line. Essentially, it's the heart of your organization- Yeah ... is your communications strategy. Yeah. It is, it's a beautiful, um... it's not even a solution, but it's just a beautiful byproduct of what your business is there for.

Yeah. Yeah. It could be to support a mission. It could be to launch a product. If you don't have heart, then what are you doing it for? Yeah. For money. Well Yeah. That too. And- I mean, we are talking about revenue. Right. So I got a question. Then how does a, how does a leader tell that, that this is a problem, or is this...

How can they tell this is actually part of their infrastructure or their organization? I think there's a couple of ways that leaders can tell whether or not communications is an, is part of the infrastructure. One is obviously looking at your operating budget and seeing what percentage of your overall budget is focused on marketing and communications.

Yeah. If it is less than the rest of your budget, I would, I would pause and say, "I need to do an assessment here." Yeah. I need to dive into this and see where our focus is and what our focus is, and see if we're actually spending in a way that promotes what our goals are- Oh ... or helps us achieve it.

Separately, I think it's important for leaders to identify what the culture of their internal organization is. Are people helping? Meaning, is there buy-in to what the communication goals are or the revenue goals are for the organization in any given year? A good way to assess that is in reverence to your strategic plan.

How are our KPIs looking? If we're slow to achieve a quarterly goal, then there's probably something wrong there. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, if there's burnout, if your employees are leaving, there's signs that are always there- Yeah ... if you're looking- Hmm ... for them. Yeah. How f- how long does it take to produce something?

Are you constantly looking for outside help? Turnover. Turnover is a big one. Yeah. Yeah. Is this a... You, you'd said look at budget and look at, you know, how much money they're spending in marketing. Is, is there a sliding scale depending on what type of organization we're talking about? Because I know you do a lot of work with associations, and I would imagine- From my experience and what I've learned from you and from, from just the work that we've done, one of their main jobs is communicating and marketing their expertise that they offer to that professional group that they represent.

Is there, is there a percentage, or is there companies that can get away with not spending much on marketing and communication? I, I mean, I don't know. So when an association specifically thinks about how much they should theoretically spend on a department of marketing or communications, or even how communications is part of their foundational strategy, it's not black and white- Mm-hmm

essentially. What it truly is, it's a journey on identification of what type of legacy the organization wants to be remembered for, strategic or status quo. And based on what that answer is, there could be a study done on who is supporting marketing and communications functions and to what extent. Yeah.

So it's not... It, it's a very dynamic process in identifying investment- Mm ... and futures. It's similar to how one of us might invest in our retirement. You have, um, you have a pie chart where a percentage is aggressive, a percentage is conservative- Yeah ... maybe buy some bonds. Communications is the same way.

You get out of it what you put into it. Yeah. Yeah. But you could see, like, if... I, I think you drew a good distinction of, like, the strategic, uh, path and the kinda status quo, right? Like, I think the status quo side of things are probably gonna have lower... They're gonna put... They might not even have it as a line item.

Do you think that's, that, that's a true thing? Like, they might not think of it ahead of time? They've got, like, this extra operating budget that everything has to pull for and they have to fight for instead of being strategic about it ahead of time? Does that seem like a- Yes ... likely scenario? I actually just reviewed a P&L at, uh, for a nonprofit where they had marketing and advertising as income line, but not as an expense.

Yeah. So that right there tells you that- I think marketing and communications is very misunderstood. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Mm-hmm. Infrastructure. No. Definitely. So the people who are j- kind of maintaining the status quo, there's probably a correlation to how they look at any of this communications, and they're not seeing it at all as infrastructure.

They're not seeing at all as... They're not seeing it as infrastructure, and that's where a very strong CEO or a board of an association that embraces the visionary- Mm-hmm ... goals of an organization can really drive success. Yeah. Uh, embracing, uh, a brand strategy, embracing investment, or even embracing that there needs to be one person that is representative an- of an organization.

Makes the renewal process so much easier, right? Um, I mean, there's the, the, like, so you've got that, and some of the bigger organizations, they're paying for not even just event training, but other programs, right, that helps drive revenue. If you can communicate that effectively to people and sell those courses, the m- mostly online or webinars and stuff like that, right?

Yeah. They're gonna be able to... You know, that's where, that's a practical example of where communications can help drive revenue. That is the perfect example- Yeah ... of, of communications and marketing being a driver of revenue. Yeah. Do you think that a lot of people in this situa- I'm s- talking more status quo- Sure

that, that they kind of take those things for granted a little bit? That, "This is our program. This is what people show up for." Um, it, it's almost like a given. This is what it is. Yes, and I would probably say to that that communications or marketing has been a function, not necessarily a strategy. Yeah. It's a checkbox item for an association, and when your marketing or communications teams are just doing a rinse and repeat, there's burnout.

There's not really as much life as there could be- Yeah ... in an organization. We've talked briefly about our love of the National Park Service- Mm-hmm ... and how they've created a movement around how they connect with the public. Mm-hmm. And there's no reason why that heart and that strategy can't be brought to an association.

Yeah. But for some reason, and this is more prominent potentially in the status quo associations, it's because communication is not understood. Yeah. Marketing is not understood. And if that's done earlier, and it's respected as a revenue driver as opposed to a task- Mm-hmm Then that communications will drive everything else that an association needs to survive- Mm

or an organization needs to survive. Yeah. And even with the status quo, uh, I, I'm assuming, let's just say in theory they have events that they put on throughout the year, and let's say there's two events. Is it possible that they get 100% attendance? Does that ever happen? Is that common? I don't believe 100% attendance is common.

Okay. But I don't know. I know of most associations That would be- I, I'm like just thinking of the logistics of that, like- Yeah ... that's probably the white whale that everybody wants. Well, that- Yeah ... and that's the point I'm trying to make is, like, there's always that goal of- Mm-hmm ... trying to work towards that 100%, a- and it's- Yeah

probably a little bit of a dream, but I think that that could be, "Oh, we always get 500 people that show up." Well- Yeah ... why not 3,000? You just made me remember that there is one association that does this very well and constantly exceeds their goals. Mm. Associations West. Hey. We were all at Seasonal. Yep.

Yeah. And they, um, they hit like triple home runs Yeah. Wow ... with their attendance rates, right? And if we study that for a second as to why they exceeded their revenue goals and their attendance goals, it's how they communicated. Mm. They have a brand that is recognizable, thanks to you guys. You're welcome.

And a value proposition that is aligned with the experience people get on the ground. Mm-hmm. That's 100% communications- Yeah ... and an investment in communications. Three solid pillars- Yeah ... that you could look at pretty consistently for a lot of associations around, right, is- Right. My mind is racing, 'cause, uh, y- you've touched on so many little, like you've planted a seed across so many organizational things.

You know, you've talked about strategic planning, you've talked about budgeting, you've talked about, like, communications as a whole team, you've talked about brand, you've talked about marketing. There's so much here. Like, so much here. Like, we often joke around, like, "Oh, we could probably do a whole podcast about that," but I, I think we could do, like, not just an episode, like I think we should, we could do like a whole, whole new podcast on this whole topic about revenue and communications.

Great idea. Yeah. That is a great idea. Should we do that? I think so. Yeah. I know so. Yeah. Yeah. We already decided we're gonna do it- All right ... so here, so yeah. I mean, do you wanna, do you want- Yes. What's it called? What's, what's this podcast we're talking about? I'm so excited to be on this couch with my long-term friends and colleagues, because we are launching the Revenue Speaks podcast.

And I will say that this isn't just a podcast, it's a podcast about leadership and rewriting the narrative on how communications Isn't overhead- Yeah ... it is infrastructure. Yeah. Hard stop. Wow. You might have a hill ahead, ahead of you with this, right? Like, that's a... We joked when we first started talking about this, I think we had this idea, and you, you've phrased it perfectly.

We were talking this idea of like how transformative something might be, and like, it like, and you said like introducing peanut butter and jelly for the first time. Like, and this could be that moment for a lot of people, right? Who, um, you're, you've got a good mindset to this, right? That this, that this communications is an important part of infrastructure and helps set up success in so many areas, right?

Um, do you think this is gonna be a peanut butter and jelly moment for, uh, for g- other people that need to hear this? It will be the only peanut butter and jelly moment that exists in this marketplace, especially for associations- Yeah ... that can't put their finger on why they aren't exceeding their strategic goals.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've talked about this for years. Mm-hmm. Like, why can't associations, why can't organizations just put in the investment? Yeah. And Revenue Speaks is actually going to bring in those leaders that have embraced communications as infrastructure from the start. Wait, so like are we talking like CEOs and stuff?

We are talking the CEOs that are, uh, drivers of change- Yeah, mm ... and help people like me that are usually triggered when ... associations lump in marketing and communications together- Yeah ... that have realized early on in the formative years, or even maybe mid-cycle or mid, mid-business cycle, that by changing this one thing, there is an investment that will pay off unrealized dividends for years to come.

Wow. So, I mean, this could be a great podcast for other CEOs to listen to and kinda get inspired or hear how, get inside the heads of other people who've kinda made this shift and, and operate in this, this way, right? Right. And I will say, even though the podcast is called Revenue Speaks, by focusing in on the leadership and mindset of how communications is infrastructure, not overhead, we're talking about culture, we're talking about planning, strategy, then operations as well.

Yeah. All the implementation of that and, and the continued heartbeat of that, 'cause you don't want it to be this, we did something awesome in a retreat, and then it goes into everybody's filing cabinet. And like, "Hey, remember our core values?" No. No. No. Like, yeah. We'll even- It needs to be, m- you know. There's a lot of, there's a lot of points along that thread to connect communication and revenue, but there is a very consistent thread that I think you've got the expertise to- pull out and, and, and pull those stories from these leaders that have done this from the start, like you said.

Well, thank you, Eric. And, and that is the goal. It's to take organizations that are in this cycle of status quo to strategic growth and a strategic mindset. I love associations. Mm. I've spent now almost half of my career in them and supporting them, and there is just so much potential for communications to drive revenue.

In this day and age where associations are struggling- Yeah ... they're competing for members, they're competing for dollars, they're competing with, um, with the size of their staff. Mm-hmm. Let's go back to basics and figure this out- Yeah ... and change the narrative on how important communications can speak to revenue.

Yeah. It's... Oh, it sounds, sounds fantastic. Yeah. Love it. I'm, I'm subscribed already. You have to be, Mike. Oh, that's perfect. Duty. I mean, this sounds great, and I could totally see how CEOs would see a lot of value in this, but, like, what about our marketing teams of one here? Like, are they... Is, is there something that there for them?

Yes. Every conversation we have with a CEO will highlight the bottlenecks that they've either dispelled- Mm ... or identified- Yeah ... and how they eliminated bottlenecks - Yeah, yeah ... to growth. I think that's a huge part of it, right? Like, with CEOs, and especially the strategic stuff that you're talking about, that kind of either reset, um...

So much of it comes down to, like, having clarity, and the direction, everything, and that's what we see on so many things on the marketing side of things, is that the clarity part- buckets aren't really figured out. Like, you don't really have that clarity figured out about what's this project for even, or, you know, going even more organization-wide, like, I mean, who is our audience?

Like, who are we trying to talk to? What is... What's gonna resonate with them? Like, those are, those are important things and, and a lot of that has to be led by the CEO, right? That, like, you, they have to be the leader. They have to drive that. They do. We, we've seen so many opport- uh, so many situations where when they don't have that clarity, it causes systemic problems throughout their entire organization, and it's just been...

It introduces so much chaos that's unnecessary, and that's something- Yeah ... that I'm excited to hear more insights on, because that's something that I'm a true believer on, is that those CEOs, those leaders really have the power to clean all that up and make their organizations run a lot more smoother by removing a lot of that chaos.

I think there's so many things, like you said, like systemic things, and they might n- not even be- Yeah ... apparent, you know? I think that's what it is, right? Like, if it- if you're running status quo, you might not see the connection between all of this, right? And so I think it'll be really interesting to hear from these CEOs who really have- Prioritize this and they have, they, they know that this is a key to success for them 100%.

And Revenue Speaks won't just talk about association successes with CEOs. We'll also be looking at how industry, business, applications of success can be applied to associations as well. Yeah 'Cause communication strategies are the same. Yeah It's having the vision to use communications as a source of revenue.

Yeah. Yeah. S- I- I'm looking forward to, to this so much. Me too. I know there's a lot of podcasts out there, especially talking about the non-profit and association space. Um, w- what do we wanna do different with Revenue Speaks? What, why should people wanna listen to this? I know there's a lot of podcasts out there that focus on tactics.

Mm-hmm. Revenue Speaks focuses on systems, specifically leadership systems. Hmm. By talking with CEOs- Mm-hmm ... we're going to unpack the mindset behind what it takes to create an operational system where communications is at the core- Yeah ... of every rev- revenue strategy that may be implemented in the future.

But even more so, every episode of Revenue Speaks ends with what we're calling the revenue test. These are going to be rapid-fire questions where CEOs just give us their first draft answer- Hmm ... to how they view a communications challenge- Mm-hmm ... or obstacle or whatever it might be. It sounds insanely valuable.

We had an interesting whiteboard session with you, and during that is, started the genesis for this idea behind the podcast. And we also discovered a couple of other things too. We have some synergies that both Luminary Partners, your company, and Page Design, our company, they... We're aligned on a lot of these things.

We've partnered on projects before in the past, and this has just been something that we've just continued the conversation and, and knew that we kept pulling on this thread it would, it would land with something like this. And so that's been exciting to come to this realization and, and actually develop this idea with you.

Um, speak a little bit more to what we unpacked when we did these co- when we had these conversations, 'cause I think that's what got us all excited about this, um, what you bring to the table, what we bring to the table. Well, first of all, I am so grateful for Page Design to allow Luminary Partners to be on the Marketing Team of One channel.

Oh. Heck yeah. Revenue, Revenue Speaks is something that we all felt needed to happen. Yeah. There's this interesting intersection where clarity and execution are non-negotiables. Yeah. It's really the secret sauce. I'll say that over and over again. If an organization does not have clarity and a plan for follow-through- You're dead in the water.

Yeah. And that's something that both of our organizations have been struggling with. We've seen it. We know we could do more, but we're, we're stopped short in our- Mm-hmm ... ability to implement true success because the foundations at an organization do not allow for that success to happen to its fullest extent.

Throughout the years that we've known each other, this has always been a topic of conversation. Absolutely. How do we, what can we do better? Mm. There's something out there that we need to teach. We had that light bulb moment probably more times than we can count. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. I ran out of fingers and toes.

I know. Yeah. And we knew that in order to have this conversation, we needed to meet the association marketplace where they would hear us. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we are putting in practice innovation that is required for associations to succeed. Yep. So Revenue Speaks, what we're launching here, is an alignment between thought and execution, as well as strategy.

Yep. Yeah. I think we al- we also brought to it, like, we see the success stories. We've seen the work we've done with different people who have invested that, like, you know, unpacking their story or their, their... and how we get that out to p- to the world, and we see the success that can happen from that. So that's what makes it even more frustrating when you see the people who don't realize it yet.

They're not ready for that, and you're like, "Oh, you have so much potential here." Mm. "That we just need to get through a couple of these things, and we can truly unlock a lot of potential that's there." Right? And, uh, so, like, I think that's what, what a lot of our conversations come back to too, is, like, oh, my gosh, like, if people just, like, saw what they had- Yes

and the potential- Yeah ... that, and, and- Yeah ... yes, we wanna do this stuff for people so we can help them, and, you know, and... 'cause I think we get a lot of joy in that or, like, seeing them on the other side of that. Exactly, and for the organizations that our companies help, we get to see the bones and the heart and then how you use that to succeed, right?

Yeah. And that's why I think this collaboration between our companies is, was meant to be. Definitely. Mm-hmm. Where you have the analysis that can be done, the strategic conversations, and then the execution. Yep, yep, yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. Well, I think we've done a good job of building the excitement around this new show.

I know that we're all excited to put this together. It's gonna be an audio podcast and a video podcast. Sheila, why don't you let people know where can they go to learn more? All information about Revenue Speaks can be found at revenuespeaks.com. That's where you'll be able to watch episodes live if you'd like or listen on wherever you like to get your podcasts.

But mostly you'll be able to learn more about the show, our mission, and how we are making sure that communications has a seat at the table. Go to revenuespeaks.com, sign up for the email notifications, and so you can know the moment we drop new episodes. I think you'll enjoy it. Let's do a quick revenue test, Mike.

Okay. I want your best revenue communications one-liner. Campaigns don't compound, but infrastructure does. Nailed it. Yes. Eric, your turn. Okay. Alignment is quiet. Misalignment is expensive. See, this is exactly why we're doing Revenue Speaks. We get it. We get it. All right, you put us on the spot. What's your Revenue Speaks wisdom?

Revenue is the most honest KPI. Interesting. Bravo. This has been really fun. I can't wait to hear what comes out of all these conversations and, uh, but I, you've, today has been, just opened my eyes to even more little pathways that we could take, um, in these conversations, and how important communications is, and how it shouldn't be an afterthought, so.

You know, you've heard the saying, right, Mike? You can't market your way out of misalignment. Mm. I don't know if I have heard that. Well, you've heard it now. I've heard it now, and I'm gonna live by it. You're right. Your, it is. Misal- alignment is key. Right? Yeah. Well, thank you for coming in. This has been fantastic.

Thank you for having me. And I'm gonna hand over this chair to you for- And I know you'll serve it well. I will take care of it. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Sheila.

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