22 Years of PR Taught Her One Brutal Truth About Crisis

There is no work product that should leave your hands from the AI machine- Yeah ... that doesn't have a human touch. So fact-checking, if it's using trends or statistics or policy- Mm ... or something that's rooted in fact, please, please, please go and vet that. Yeah. That sounds hard, though. Just vet it. I don't have that kind of time.

Welcome to the Marketing Team of One podcast, where we have conversations about the issues one-person marketing teams face when trying to meet their goals with limited time and budgets. Now here's your hosts, Eric and Mike. Ladies and gentlemen, we are very lucky today to have with us Ms. Vanessa Sapino.

Hello, Vanessa. Hello. Nice to have you on the show. Let me- Thank you for having me. Explain your role at FleishmanHillard. So I am a senior vice president and partner of our Sacramento office. Um, I'm also the market lead here in the region. Um, I've been with Fleishman for 22 years- Nice ... so it's, I've grown up there.

It's home, and, uh, we have a really great team in Sacramento. I'm really excited to be here representing the team. That's awesome. Yeah. Uh, just to kind of recap on what FleishmanHillard does, is they are a global public re- public relations firm. Correct. Now, I wanna get into it and just kind of explain it to me like I'm a five-year-old.

Sure. Public relations isn't directly marketing, but it's very, it handshakes all the time with marketing. You're s- messaging, you're crisis management, you're doing a lot of typing. Yes. Right? That's what you're delivering, is words, basically. Correct. Yes. Is that a good way to kind of explain it to- That's a great way, yes.

We, we are at the table with marketing, we're at the table with the executive management of our clients. Um, we're counselors first and foremost in all things communications. Interesting. So anything that impacts their business, positive or negative- Mm-hmm ... um, we're, we're in lockstep. So, you know, if there's a new product launch, messaging is needed, you know.

Audience segmentation to ensure we're reaching the right people. And so we're working with marketing really closely to ensure- Yeah ... that, you know, PR has a strong foundation for which to, to move forward with a campaign. Well, how would you differentiate between, uh, uh, somebody who does marketing is, is tasked with figuring out the story for their brand, their company- Mm-hmm

whatever that might be. Mm-hmm. Um, and they may do that through, you know, focus groups or talking to people or just customer feedback, maybe testimonials and things like that. How different is the process that a public relations firm- takes in establishing. I- is it similar what you're trying to figure out?

I think so, and it, it really depends on the client- Okay ... that you're working with. You could be all the things to- Yeah, okay ... that client. Um, but you could also have a very specific carved-out public relations role, say it's just media relations. They only- Mm ... need your help to be the conduit between themselves and their product or service to a reporter.

Yeah. So, you know, it, it really runs the gamut, and it depends on what the client's needs are, but we wear a lot of hats - Yeah, interesting ... on any given day. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. You're on call for your clients. It's kind of a re- Yes ... probably a retainer-based agreement- Sometimes, yes ... I'm assuming- Mm-hmm ... like that, just to get to the business structure of things.

And you're there for them to call at a moment's notice and say, "Hey, we've got a new product," or, "Hey, we've got changes in our organization," or, "Oh, no, something happened, and we need to get ahead of it and think about how that's gonna show up on the news if it's something at that scale." Is that kind of some of the things?

Yeah, but I would say with one important caveat. So we are always looking ahead- Okay ... as much as we possibly can. Mm. So the best client relationship has a year or more strategic plan in place- Mm, okay ... to help guide what their business objectives are and how c- can our communications objectives help them move the needle within their business.

So we have these plans in place, you know, a year or more in advance. But the flip side of that is plans change, things can pivot- Yes ... and we need to be able to pivot just as quickly as their business does. So yeah, we were always on standby. Mm. Uh, when the client calls at every level of the organization, you gotta be ready.

And, um, so yes, some of those best-laid plans go off without a hitch, and sometimes they don't, and that's okay, too. You know, we're... The best client relationship allows you to be in lockstep with them, and there's a trust that's there. Mm. So if they say, "Look, we're scrapping this for whatever reason, what can we do in its place?"

or, "How can we make this," you know, whatever the issue may be, "how can we make it better and salvage the, the path forward?" So it's a lot of being on your toes- Mm-hmm ... and just anticipating their needs, trying to in advance, and then pivoting when, when you, when you can't and you need to, to handle an issue that comes up.

Is that something you help them with, or is that something they do usually internally or have consultants that help them with that? Um, great question. I think ultimately, you know, we can help them with that, but ideally, it's great if they come to the table with... I mean, it could be the most basic thing. We want to increase market share by 5%.

Sure. Or- Oh ... we want to, you know, uh, launch a new program or a new initiative within the company. Mm-hmm. You know, how, how can we do that, you know, and capture this particular audience's attention? So it's if they come to the table with business objectives, we can really quickly build the communications objectives to help them meet those goals.

Hmm, interesting. But we can also help them shape those goals too, 'cause they may not know- Right ... coming in, like, you know, exactly how to map that out. So we, we can do both. Yeah, interesting. Mm-hmm. Um, so your job a little bit is also to see the future. I wish I had a crystal ball. Oh, I thought- I really do.

Yeah. I thought. Um, yes, particularly when it comes to issues management and being prepared in that way. It's like having contingency plans, but even before that, figuring out where the weaknesses lie so that you can be better prepared. Ah. Ah. Yeah, yeah. Right? Um, so yes. So- If I, if I had a crystal ball. I thought that Fleishman had some sort of-

thing maybe back at home base- Mm-hmm ... where everybody just goes and lays hands on it and gets the future right to them. We, we, we do. We try. Yeah. But, you know, it's, it's not quite there yet. Maybe AI will help us get there one day. Yep. Who knows? But there you go. Talk about that in a little bit. Yes, we will.

'Cause it, it... But what's impressive about FleishmanHillard is it is truly global. It is all over the globe. I mean, uh, there are offices in every continent almost. Yes. Maybe not Antarctica, but I- Don't believe we have an office there yet ... don't have one yet. They don't have any issues as much down there.

Right. The penguins are fine for now. They're good. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's good. Seeing the future is very important, but also it is pertinent to that industry. Mm-hmm. So your job is to be ahead of and very aware of your particular client's channel, as it were. Correct. News flow- Yes ... let's call it, current events within that.

Mm-hmm. Yes. Let's talk a little bit about your specific clients who you work with because- Sure ... you, you have told me in the past that the, it's a global company. Mm-hmm. But every office is a kind of a boutique in, in a, in a sense. They look at what's around them- Mm-hmm ... just in their region. Mm-hmm. And they have a team built around just the specifics around that.

Now, here in Sacramento, we have government. We do. And we have agriculture. Mm-hmm. And we have water, and we have blah, blah, blah. Yes. Those are... W- what is, what are your specialties at your office? Well- To your point, we do, in Sacramento, we do operate like a boutique agency. Mm-hmm. So yes, we are connected to this amazing global network- Mm

of offices and expertise across the world. Um, here in Sacramento, we pride ourselves on being experts in food, agribusiness, and beverage. Okay. Um, we started out in that space, and we put a stake in the ground- Mm ... and, and said, you know, "Agriculture is really what moves this region." Um, and that was, wow, 30 years ago.

I don't even know the exa- Yeah ... '89, I think we opened our offices here in Sacramento. Oh, gosh. Um, back then our first client was Table Grapes, and so we started in the commodity board space and just built from there. You know, one client at a time, one campaign at a time, um, to now having, you know, commodity boards, packaged goods, agribusiness companies sort of as our, as our main client, uh, roster.

Interesting. Is wine part of that? You said grapes. I think wine, or is that a different- We had wine for quite some time. Okay. I think at one point during the height, we had 11 wine brands that we managed out of our office. Goodness. Um, fun times for sure. Yeah. A lot of brainstorming and, you know, collaboration to come up with the next best campaign.

But, um, yeah, today we don't actually have wine on our roster, and as you know, that industry is having some troubles, if you will. But, um- Yeah ... hopefully it can be back on the comeback tour real soon. We have, we have what I call farm kids in our office who- Ah ... you know, grew up on- Yeah ... dairy farms and in vineyards and, you know, other specialty crops and things.

Yeah. So it's, it's, uh, it's great to have that passion, and we are quite passionate about those different sectors of the, of the industry. So when they say boutique, they really just mean taking a kind of a customized look at exactly what that region needs- Exactly ... and then just- Yes ... servicing that. Correct.

So it's not like the auto indus- Yes ... you're not gonna speak to any auto manufacturers or something like that between- Well, we also are sort of, you know, jack of all trades in a lot of ways. You know, like I came up in the agency really focused on more corporate communications, and I wasn't really on the food marketing side that, you know, just- Speaking very candidly did not light me up.

I was the issues girl I was the one who wanted to deal with the, you know, the recalls, and the crises, and the- Oh ... doing all the serious stuff- I see ... um, while my colleagues were, you know, pitching National Cheddar Day or, you know? One of my favorites. It was just a different way of, of looking at, you know, the work and the opportunity that lies- Yeah

in the agency, because it really can take you wherever you, you wanna go. If you like writing speeches, well, guess what? Yeah. You know, there's a role for you within the agency to do just that. So it's- Huh ... you know, it really hones your skills, I think, over time, and you end up having not only an expertise in the, in the industry sector, but also with your, your craft and your, your capabilities, so.

And a part of, you know, it's public relations, and so relations is a big part. Obviously- Mm-hmm ... you have to have relationships all over the industry. Yes. That's a big part of growing and thriving in the public relations world, is having not just the clients who need your help- Mm-hmm ... messaging things, but then you also are a conduit to media, uh- Correct

advi- you know- Mm-hmm ... political people Mm-hmm Maybe there's, you know, lobbyists or something like that. I mean, explain the full breadth of what that looks like. Obviously we know the client side a little bit more now, but let's talk about- Sure ... the other side of that. Like, who are you? Why do they come to you?

Because you've got a red phone that you can call the governor or something like that? I mean, is that part of the dynamic? Yeah. I think for the most part our clients lean on us for those relationships, whether it's media in a particular sector, um, you know, if you manage, say, a tech client, you're gonna have the relationships in the media, you know, that are very much focused on the tech scene.

And so over time, reaching out to them, working with them, setting your clients up with them on interviews, you get to know the people who, you know- Yeah ... care about the industry and the trends. And, you know, you do sort of have that bat phone, if you will- ... when, you know, you need it. That- Collection of people, that network that you've built is super valuable.

I'm wondering, does your network span all the way up to, you know, New York Times reporters? Do you have- Mm ... channels that speak to kind of large media, as well as industry-specific and maybe just regional media? Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely, and if I personally don't have those relationships, we have people in the firm that have those relationships.

And so there was just a scenario recently where we had a client that was going to be on the New York Stock Exchange and gonna be in New York for, you know, a day, and we were, we were attempting to see if we could line up media. And, you know, I don't play in that space very often- Yeah ... so it was like phone a friend on this one-

and get the best counsel of how much time is needed, and where would they meet, and, you know, can we do a phone interview? Does it have to be in person? And all the things to think about when you're trying to line up an executive for- Yeah ... an interview of, of that size and stature. Well, if you're out there, folks, shopping for PR firms-

uh, I would definitely take that into consideration. Thank you. Are you gonna need to go global? Do you need to talk to the Financial Times in London, you know- Right. Yeah ... or something like that? Mm-hmm. You know, like having that global net- You can probably find that person within the day, I would imagine.

Well, and what's really interesting, so in the last year, FH Sacramento has now folded into one California, where all the offices in California work incredibly closely together. Mm. And it has opened up a whole new world. Hmm. Um, because, you know, to your earlier point, when you have this global company, it was hard to forge those relationships across offices unless, you know, there was a reason.

Yeah, yeah. But now, every single day, I'm talking to colleagues in San Francisco and Southern California, and we're on Teams threads, and we're sharing, and we're asking each other for things, and we've created this amazing camaraderie, but also- Interesting ... it- you're getting to know the skills and capabilities of the whole state.

Yeah. And so it's great. As you said, like financial communications, I know exactly who to call- Yeah ... if I had a client that said, "Hey, we're looking to, you know, put out an earnings statement. Can you do that for us?" I would imagine that other offices, even if it's a global organization, they can maybe be, not competitive, but kinda like- Hey, I'm wine You know what?

I'm gonna handle all the wine stuff. Was there ever any fear in the dynamics of kind of opening up California to anything like that as far as- Not really, surprisingly That's great ... you would think that. Yeah Um, but no, I, a- and I think we are all playing really well to our strengths- Yeah ... and sort of staying in our lane.

But if we needed support across something, now we have this huge foundation from which to pull. Nice. Um, so I know I wish I could say we're fighting tooth and nail for, you know Darn, that's so much- ... our stake in the ground- ... better for the podcast. ... and our territory, but no, we, we play really well in the sandbox, which is great.

That's awesome. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about building that network then. Sure. So, uh, obviously you've got a great network internally at FH, so that's super powerful. But you as an individual or your teams- Mm-hmm ... what, what, how do you, how do you build a network as doing what you're doing? What do, what do you d- You're just reaching out, going to places?

What, what does that look like? It's definitely a hybrid of in-person and events and social and all the things, as I like to say. Mm-hmm. But, um, I think it's, it's deliberate connection, creating moments where you can take a relationship off social and get together for coffee or- Hmm. Mm-hmm ... um, you know, seeing someone at an event that you maybe seen once before, but never even spoke to, but you know who they are and you kinda wanna get to know them and just start that approach, start that conversation.

Um, we were just at a summit recently where it was networking by fire, you know? Everywhere you turn, there was somebody that you wanted to have a conversation with. Right. So clearly you can't have conversations with everyone when you're- Yeah ... trying to be there to learn as well. But, uh, came away with a ton of business cards, and I was like, "Oh, what did I talk to this person about?"

And so I would make a little note on the card, which by the way, business cards are still a thing. I... We've converted back to paper business cards. Yes. We were all digital. People... Yes, they're, they're still a thing. Yeah. Um, and after the summit, took that opportunity to just send quick emails. Take it off of LinkedIn- Yeah

because that was the one thing that was, was difficult, is everybody just wants your LinkedIn. Yeah. But then when you get back, you're trying to figure out, w- what, what was it that was unique about that connection that I wanna follow up on? 'Cause now they're just one of your 500 followers- ... or friends and, and- Yeah

you know, trying to figure out what made them unique is, is difficult in that space. So yeah, I think it's those small touches- But also trying to get behind, you know, from away from behind the screen and- So real person ... meeting in person, I know ... like actual sharing the same space. I think we're getting back to that- Yeah

um, which is nice I'm happy for that. I, I'm, I like that too. I mean, it just does r- kind of cement a lot more in your brain, like, "Oh, that's that person- Mm-hmm ... and I really like that thing about that person," you know? Well, I think also in the work that we do is being that connective tissue. Yeah. So if I know somebody who could benefit from knowing you, and I introduce the two of you- Mm-hmm

and y- it becomes a beneficial, you know, relationship for you, it creates value, right? So how often are you doing in-person stuff? Is it twice a month? 15 times a week? What is it? Is it just- Definitely- What's the rate? ... not 15 times a week. Oh, okay. Um, I, I sort of set this, like, goal, although I haven't really put it in, you know, on paper or anything yet.

Oh. But I definitely wanna do one thing a month in person, two if I'm lucky. Okay. Whether it's attend a mixer, call somebody to get together for coffee, or, you know, something. Just keeping that as a routine- Yeah ... because it's easy to put off, forget about, you know, think that you're too busy to make it happen.

Yeah. So it's a concerted effort to at least do two things a month. And in that, there's intention around it. Yes. Let's say it is a networking event where you collect business cards. It's not like, "Oh, cool, I met all these really fun people." You're literally, like, writing notes on these relationships in a sense, and saying, "This is a person who's really great at- Right

and maybe they would like to talk to Mary," or what, something like that. Right. Yeah. And, i- and don't get me wrong, I think social media is really important for- Mm ... you know, continuing to build that, you know, knowledge and that relationship about that person. Like, if I read an article that reminded me of- Mm

of them or their work, I would, you know, shoot it over and say, "Hey, thought of you," and- Yeah ... um, I don't know, I think that just, again, kinda adds that additional value of, you know, reaching out to somebody new and creating that relationship over time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're all professionals in this world, and it's so critical.

I think there's th- I know that there's some people that seem to have pushback around these ideas of networking events, it's just too corporate or something like that, but that's- I mean, it can be- Yeah ... certainly. Um, so I think you pick and choose what works for you. Yeah. And, you know, I really like the, uh, the events that leverage the relationships within our space, because I think we learn so much about- what's happening in the communications industry by talking to each other.

Yeah. Because sometimes you can become very much, you know, in your own walls. Uh, break up your week. What does it look like? Is every day the same? Is every day completely different? No. Do you have standard things going on all the time? I have standard things going on, but, uh, there's no day that's the same as the last.

Nice. Um, I'm, I'm a planner. I like to start my week out with a 9:00 AM call with the team, and we go through line item by line item on the work stream, and we get updates. Where are we with this? When are we delivering that? When do we need to check in on this? Mm-hmm. Um, and that's everything from, you know, the, the client side, and also checking in internally on the team, making sure everybody has, you know, their marching orders, so to speak- Mm-hmm

for the week. Mm-hmm. It just sets the tone. Yeah. It really, really sets the tone. So I like to get really clear and organized on what my week's gonna look like on those Mondays. And then by Tuesday it's all, like, whatever. It's all thrown in the garbage can. No, but then actually, and, and I don't know, uh, this just over time, so then Tuesday becomes the, okay, we're checking in with the client.

Ah, okay. We're giving them, you know, an update on all those work streams. Do we need their help to move something along? Is something stuck in a bottleneck that we- Yeah ... need their help to unstick? Yeah. Um, so those are, those are the main tasks I wanna start to move on on Tuesday. And then with the goal of having as much as we can get done in that particular week, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, it's, it's nose to the grindstone to get that list checked.

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Now, are you working with partners all over, too? You're not just working with your internal team. Is there standard workflows with that, with some of those partners that you're working with? Is, they do a check-in we- meeting or something like that? Yeah. And it really depends on the initiative.

I mean, we, we work with- You know, we work with a lot of marketing partners on behalf of our clients, so we have really detailed work back plans- Mm ... that say, "Okay, by this date we needed this contract," or, "We needed the press release to be drafted." And so it's following those timelines and keeping- Mm ... all the trains running on time is, is a lot of what we do.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, taking inventory of all that from the get-go and making sure that everybody is assigned a task, you know? Yeah. And then it's just convening the right partners to, to make sure the work's moving along. It's not glamorous. It's checking boxes. Sounds like work, yeah. Yeah. So I think I'm in a unique position because I have managed Kubota as my main account for 17 years, and have just developed tremendous relationships within that organization.

There are days where I feel like an employee of their company- Mm ... and I live and breathe the brand. Um, but also within Fleishman, as I've moved up in the ranks, so to speak, I'm also responsible for teams and their client work. So it runs beyond, you know, my one core account- Mm-hmm ... into ensuring all of our account work runs smoothly.

So it's, to your point, sometimes it's difficult for me to relinquish that control- ... and be like, "I've been doing this for so long." Yeah. "I know it's a well-oiled machine." No pun intended. Yeah. Nice. Um, but in trusting the team to carry the work forward- Yeah ... and when I'm needed, I'm, you know, I'm there 100% of the time for issues, crises, executive counsel, um, and just, you know, overall strategic planning.

You have to wear different trucker hats- Yeah ... it sounds like- Absolutely ... on different days. Absolutely. Yeah, and that's, uh, you know, as you're doing it longer and longer, you, did, that just becomes more comfortable. You've got your hat rack. Yeah. You put one on for- Today we're gonna put on that- There's the Kubota one

Kubota orange. Yes. Yeah. That's- Yes. It's true. Let's talk a little bit about the really fun stuff at a PR firm, crisis management. Okay. The stuff you see on the news, the stuff you see on TMZ. Mm-hmm. Maybe. Maybe not. But I mean, it could potentially. I mean, maybe. Potentially. Depends on who you're working with.

Right. Um, TMZ has a lot of star, like, Hollywood stuff. You said you had a story you were gonna- ... share with us when we were doing our pre-interview. This could have been a TMZ story. I don't know, but I'm just gonna let you tell the story. It could have been, but thankfully it was not. This stands out in my mind of, like, one of those career-building moments that you never saw coming.

Um, I was in Boston on behalf of a client, and I was charged with managing a spokesperson, celebrity spokesperson for the brand that we were working with at the time. And, uh, my job was to meet her at her hotel room at The Four Seasons and go through our messaging. Pretty standard stuff. Yeah. I had met her one other time, so there wasn't nerves, jitters, all of that, right?

We just got right into it. And I noticed at one point we're, we're kinda getting a little late, like we need to get in the car and get over to this event, right? Mm-hmm. So I'm watching the clock, and she's getting her makeup done and all this, and so I said, "We- I think we have to take the rest of this training to the car.

Can we just, you know, hop in the car? We'll keep talking on the way to the event." So we did that, and we're driving along, and by way of background, this was in 2011, and we're in Boston, and Hurricane Irene is coming up- Oh, no ... through the Atlantic. You know, barreling its way down on the East Coast. No worries, we still have a day or two before the weather really kicks up, so for now we're just gonna stay the course, right?

So we're in the limo, we're driving to the event. She's in the back with her makeup artist getting her final touches done. I'm in the middle, manager in the passenger, and the driver, right? And we're driving along, and all of a sudden manager gets a call. Very nonchalantly says, "Oh, they're closing the bridges in New York?"

Oh, no. "Oh, wow, okay." And all of a sudden- ... from the back of the vehicle erupts pandemonium. And, "I can't get stranded in Boston. I need to get back to New York right away." And, and I was like, "What is even happening right now?" Oh. So I quickly pivot from media training to, "Okay, that's not possible. We are about to step out of the vehicle and go into a press conference.

You've got media waiting. We can't, you know- Yeah, yeah ... we can't just not continue down this road." "No, we are turning this car around, and we are, we're going back." Oh, no. And I panicked. Yeah. So I very quietly picked up my cellphone, put it on speaker, put it on my lap and said to my client so she could hear, I'm sure she would never have believed me otherwise that I didn't, you know, "You didn't fight for this hard enough," right?

I said, "We are moments away from stepping out of this vehicle." Yeah. "We need to follow through. This is the itinerary and the plan for today." And she goes, "Vanessa, I need you to get out of this car right now." "I will give you a make good. I will do whatever you need me to do at another date and time, but I am not going to that event.

I cannot get stuck in Boston." Okay, what do you say to that? So pull over to the side of the road. I literally, I get out of the vehicle, and I'm standing there- Whoa ... on the curb for what felt like an eternity, trying to figure out, "What, what do I do? What do I do?" And my client pulls up in a yellow cab right behind us, and I get in.

And we sat there staring at each other like, we've been planning this for months. Yeah. We have everything ready to go. We have a press conference waiting to happen with media standing there waiting for us to arrive. Jeez. And so what did, what did we decide to do? There was no time to come up with plan B.

It was literally, what is gonna rule the day is honesty. Ah. And I walked into this press conference, and I went straight to the microphone, and I looked at everybody waiting for this celebrity. And I said, "Unfortunately, she's not gonna be able to join us today due to the hurricane." Yeah. "She needs to get back, and we just can't accommodate today's events, but we will make good and set up interviews by phone or, you know- Yeah

in person if it allows at a later date." Wow. And that was that. Yeah. And I will never forget that whole moment. Not only was it just, just I was in awe of, I was kicked out of a limousine- ... by said celebrity. Uh, yes, so it was an- Oh, man ... interesting day. It was a very interesting day. Now, mind you, I got stranded in Boston for three days.

Yeah. I was not allowed to get out. Planes were grounded. Everything was shut down, but you know, it was what it was. I was there to do a job. You showed up. I showed up. You didn't leave. I showed up. Yeah. Yes. Oh, man. I was thinking, yeah, maybe you were gonna put on a wig and try to put a, do- ... do an impersonation of this.

No. That would've been- No, it was, it was truth, honesty, authenticity- Yeah ... and just human interactions. Yeah. Like, people were s- they were clearing out ATMs. Nobody knew how long the hurricane effects were gonna last. Yeah. And so we had that sort of working for us- That's a little more, yeah ... if you will. Uh.

But we were still a couple of days out- Yeah ... from that. So it was, it was an interesting dynamic to be- Put in Jeez, that is, is stressful too, 'cause there's a lot of work. People don't realize how much ti- You know, when you see a press conference that goes on, not like one of those ones after the Super Bowl or whatever, football games or whatever Yeah But something that's kinda custom-built, right, for that brand to put together.

Your team- It was a huge undertaking Yeah Huge undertaking Or many So none of it went off- Yeah ... the way we had planned, and we did have to completely have a do-over at another time. Sure. And she did make good on it, I will give her that. Did she show up in person again, or was it another- There was a, there was another event where she showed up in person that wasn't at the scale of what we had in Boston- Oh, okay

but yeah. Okay. Well- Yeah ... that's okay. Then, uh, she doesn't... I don't know who this is, but, uh, and you don't, obviously you can't tell us. But let's say when chaos hits, there's, there's a timing element to the art of what public relations is all about. Mm-hmm. Do you folks have a framework in mind, or how do you calculate maybe we don't say anything, maybe we're just quiet- Mm-hmm

or maybe no, let's jump to the mic, like, "Oh my gosh, we're so enthralled about this situ-" You know, whatever it is. Like, how do you- Right ... calculate that? Obviously it's probably team decisions. Mm-hmm. It's not up to just one person. Mm-hmm. But is there a strategic framework in place for something like that, or?

Yeah, absolutely, and it, and it depends on the issue, of course. But like we were talking earlier, having a plan is, is critical, so having a crisis or issues preparedness plan- Mm-hmm ... is a really great foundation to have. Now, it can't anticipate every single- Yeah ... thing that arises, but it can help you with the starter, right- Mm-hmm

of, of, of how you would handle a situation. So if it's a, I don't know, let's say a, a fire at a facility or something like that- Mm ... you know, and you were to get the crisis plan and hopefully dust it off and, and say, "Okay. We, we, we did this work at one point. Let's figure out how we're gonna-" Yeah ... you know- Yeah

engage, um, that might be a little bit extreme, 'cause there again you're, you're moving at a m- mile a minute when you've- Yeah ... got a, a disaster of that capacity. But having a plan is helpful to know what to say and when to say it, um, because if you have a statement or pre-prepared messaging, you're not completely wordsmithing.

Yeah. You're not starting from scratch. You're maybe nuancing some of the language, and you're, you know, hopefully putting yourself in a great position to control the message on the other end. Um, so I think it does take a calculated approach to determine, you know, whatever the issue is, can we stand to- Be silent?

Is it an issue that is near and dear to our hearts, like safety? Mm-hmm. If so, then we need to make a statement, or we need to be more proactive with- Yeah ... a response. So you look at an industry, let's say it's ag or food. Mm-hmm. Let's just pick food. Sure. Um, and you've already done the work to say, "Okay, here's all the terrible things that can happen with food."

There could be a food safety issue. There could be a disaster- Recall ... like you just illustrated. There's a, yeah. A recall. Yes. Um- Or, you know, something in the facility happens to an employee. You know, there c- hopefully in your scenario- Yeah ... planning, you've thought through everything that would need to happen, not only from a operational perspective, but from a media perspective.

Wow. Yeah. Uh, so you would hopefully have statements in place that would address just the, the basic frameworks, that you're just plugging in, you're plugging in the details. Because- Yeah ... in that moment, where things are moving so fast and furiously, having that foundation will help you with consistency of message, but also speed, and delivering it, and really just making an impact because you've, you've thought through all the- Yeah

potential outcomes. And tho- those are probably hard days to sit with the client- Those are hard days ... and be like, "Let's think about the worst things that can happen to you." Yes. Now, there's a study that just came out of UCLA that says, "Your product now causes this thing- Yes ... or whatever, a disease," and so you gotta plan for all those things.

Yes. And that's a really smart way to get ahead of things. Yes. And it's also really important to map out the protocols of who, who do you call when you get the call- Mm. Okay ... um, so that you're clear. You have your roadmap. Mm-hmm. Because sometimes panic can set in. Mm-hmm. And having that, you know, one step-by-step process is, is a calming experience- Mm

because it gives you what you need to, to move forward and, and to be the voice of reason sometimes when there's total calamity on the client's side. So when would you be quiet? I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of value in deciding to be silent. Yeah. You don't have to take on every issue, and I like to think of it as, like, if, if we got a media inquiry that felt a little bit out of left field, like, why would we even comment on that?

Yeah. Like, we don't have a stake in that issue. It's not about us. I think about it as, it's very visual for me, and I don't know where this comes from, but it's like- If you were to make a statement, how wide of a net are you actually casting? Ah, okay. Because you're casting it so far out, and it maybe isn't even your issue to own- Yeah

and comment on. So think about that. It, you know, who does it, who does this issue matter most to? And if the honest answer is my employees or my customers or my clients, you know, executive leadership, then y- you have to sort of figure out i- if making a statement or a comment is going to help or hurt- Yeah

that mission. Because you're shining a light on whatever that is- Yes ... and you need to be careful as to that flashlight. Mm-hmm. You don't wanna just shine it at everything and highlight maybe something that's pretty off-base, that's just looking for a headline or- Mm-hmm ... or a reaction. Yes. That's kind of a, you know, when I fight my brother and I'm just looking for the reaction.

Right. You know? Right. Kind of a dynamic, you know, you don't want that. And I think a lot of reporters, too, I, m- not generalizing here, but, you know, well, they don't know if you're gonna actually respond. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But we have this, like, inherent need to- Yeah ... be responsive. Sure. But that doesn't mean you always have to issue a, you know, on-the-record statement.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, if they came to us with a question, and we're like, "We have no clue of how to even answer that for you- Yeah. Yeah ... like we're not the right people," you know. It's just being authentic and honest with them as well. Like, "This doesn't involve our particular client. Sorry, we can't help." Being very, you know, disciplined and like, "We're only addressing- Yes

this." We cannot speak on behalf of the entire industry- Yeah ... or, or on behalf of that policymaker. You're gonna have to go to the source. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that is a big part of- It is a, it's a real big part, and I, I love those days where we have worked really hard on a crisis plan or a statement, and we are ready to go.

Mm-hmm. And then the media never calls. Oh. And it's like, "Yes." Because we were prepared, and if they did, we would've been super prepared. But if it was an issue or a lawsuit or something that you didn't want out there anyway- Mm-hmm ... and they don't come a-calling, it's, it's also a victory. Yeah. So. 'Cause the, the work, the pre-work has been done to already answer- Mm-hmm

and address it, and- Yeah ... they got everything they need to know, and you're just like, "All right." Okay, we're in good shape. Moving on. 'Cause ultimately, back to our, the original- question that you'd asked about public relations. I mean, I feel like it's my job to promote a company- Mm. Mm-hmm ... but also to protect their reputation at every angle.

Yeah. So I could be out there only talking about positive things, and yet when something negative comes along, well, guess what? It's my job, too- Mm ... to protect the reputation- Mm-hmm ... in that same moment. Maybe that's that distinction between marketing and PR- Mm-hmm ... is that you handle a little bit more of those darker issues, as where marketing's just like, "We're great because we do all these things, and we're awesome."

Absolutely, and there is a place for- Yeah ... for both, you know, hats to be worn. Sure. Sure. And people who thrive on that side of it- Yeah ... and people like me who thrive on the other side- ... of being totally prepared for protecting- Yeah ... the, the core values and mission of that. Interesting. So that's built into your psyche is- It is built in

I need to be prepared for- Yes ... disaster. And I think I'm wired that way. Even my friends will go, "Oh, yeah, Vanessa has to have a plan." Yeah. Like, I don't just show up like What are we doing? Where are we going? Yeah. Nope, I know where and when and how and Nice. Yes. That's what kind of what you're building is, uh, uh, is that toolkit, is to have that ready when things come down.

And, and really we're talking about the crisis side of things, not so much the marketing. 'Cause there's probably... You're helping develop that stuff- Mm-hmm ... and you're projecting it in your own way, whether it's through- Sure ... commentary or things. Is that part of what, what a PR... They might write, like, op-eds and opinion sides or advertorial kind of- Yes

material, or is that something else? Yeah, and I think that's one of the things that has kept me, you know, so grounded. I, I got into PR because I love to write. Yeah. Now, is it all about writing? No. There's a whole lot more that goes into it, but that was really at the core. Mm. 'Cause I s- just put me in a room and let me write press releases all day.

That sounds amazing. Hm. Interesting. How many press releases do you think you've written in your life? Oh, I have no idea. I couldn't even tell you. Really? I was bragging the other day that, um, I knew where all the bodies were buried- ... 'cause I have, like, these files that go back to press releases that I wrote in 2007.

Holy cow. You know? And I'm like- That was a while back ... hm. Am I ever gonna look at those again? Probably not. Well, now it's, there's so much more that's involved with, you know, native content. You know, when a c- Client will purchase advertising, and you can, you can get value ads and write articles and place bylines- Yeah

because you have this big buy that you get these perks that go along with it. Uh, we- Explain. You gotta break this down for me now. Yeah. So we- Now I'm starting to look at the news media a little differently. Well, and it's, it's all, it's sponsored content, right? Okay. So we, we always like to look at the, the full mix, and earned still- Mm-hmm

rules the day, but there should be a very concerted effort at paid and making sure that you're getting the message in the right hands and the right frequency over time- Mm ... so that it could really land. Mm-hmm. And so we started doing these sort of articles, if you will. Like, think about it like ask the expert about, you know, using Kubota as an example about- Mm

you know, equipment maintenance. Ask the expert. What did you wanna know when you go to pull your tractor out of the shed after six months of not- Yeah ... being- Yeah ... used. Um, and so that sort of just takes on, you know, a content ecosystem of its own because you can put it on the blog and you can put it on social, and it'll run in Hobby Farms or another- Mm

industry trade-type- Mm ... publication. Um, it's just extending the reach of, you know, the product message but also giving very useful tips on- Yeah ... what matters to the client. You're, it's content marketing, but it's just a little bit more of a there's a commercial push to- Yes ... to, to, to get that place- Yes

certainly in the- And print, for an industry like agriculture, is still really important- Mm-hmm ... to us, and so, you know, we try to make sure that it's not just all digital focused. Mm-hmm. But when it is print and digital together, that it does have that social media amplification strategy built in, and so we're getting the most miles possible out of that- Hm

content. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It, it's interesting to l- to talk also to other public relations people, and then also news media. I mean, the news industry itself has been just devastated, obviously. I think online has- Mm-hmm ... removed so many revenue streams where people would pay for a paper subscription, and you would go pick it up off your front lawn.

How should we look at the news media now in the sense of is this trusted content? I mean, they can... Obviously, the things you're talking about have a little byline in the bottom that says- Of course ... "Sponsored content." "Sponsored content." Mm-hmm. Um, and it looks like an article, but maybe it's a little more highly designed.

Maybe there's bigger- Sure ... pictures, things like that, and it's pretty obvious that it's- Mm-hmm. You know what you're getting, but you're also adding value, and there's, there's a good- Yes ... space for that. But I'm wondering, do you play in that space or n- what... Give me your thoughts around news media, especially around newspapers and articles and things that are appearing as news that may not be news.

What's your perspective on some of that? It's a really good question because it has changed so much over the years, and I think just being sort of sensitive to that, I, and aware of the changes, I think has been really helpful. Um, I still, I am still a very firm believer in newspapers. Okay. Still a very firm believer that there are reporters out there doing the goodwill of their community by getting the news out.

Yeah. I, I think it's just, I don't know, I was a journalism major, so I believe in the craft. I really, really do. Okay. Um, especially on a community level, and we've seen some amazing coverage and stories just when you, you know, build those relationships and you're doing something meaningful in a community- Yeah

they wanna come out and cover that, you know? Yeah. And yes, they probably have a lot of other expectations to, you know, get the salacious headlines as well, but when there are good things happening at that local level, I think it's still an important thing to cover and- Yeah ... you know, be part of that community fabric.

Um, so I, I still believe in those papers. I really do. I'm, I'm... I think at, the higher we go up in the media- Yeah ... ecosystem, then you get, you know, s- a little more skeptical, but- Interesting ... if we're talking ground level regional papers, and radio too. Yeah, yeah. Um, I, I really still believe that they are important and definitely still have a place, and not just because they're covering, you know, my clients or products or issues, but I really do think in getting the news out and telling the stories that we all wanna hear.

Yeah. So you're, you begin to get more skeptical as you move up- ... that ladder to certain size media companies, I guess. I do, and I get really frustrated when I see a headline that I really wanna read the rest of the article and it's behind a paywall, and then I have to decide, well, do I really wanna pay to read that one story?

Hm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, I feel like it's my right to know. I, I- Interesting ... I don't know. Yeah. I just have... But I know we're in a totally different world in terms of, you know, monetary- structure for media. It's- I mean, they've gotta make money, too ... it's so hard. I get it. I get it. And it was hard to see all that, that industry over time just- Mm-hmm

be decimated. I don't know. I know. So when we're talking about local reporting- Mm-hmm ... small papers, I know that, that when we gotta address the, the, the gorilla or the- ... elephant in the room, whatever animal we're choosing, uh, AI. Yes. I'm assuming that a lot of people are gonna be leaning on AI. They've already been doing it.

I know that I use it for, you know, I, um, I don't pretend to be a writer. I'm a picture guy. Crayons- Mm-hmm ... you know, coloring books- ... that's my jam. Um, so let's talk a little bit about responsible use of AI. Mm-hmm. Because I know that that, as we talk about news media and public relations a little bit, obviously AI learned it from something.

Right. There has to be some sort of where was the original source for this? And I know that there's certain tools that go out there. How do you use AI? What has that been like for you to go through the, kind of this transformation? I'm assuming you're using it. Yeah, it's a great question, and I think FleishmanHillard and, and our parent company really have given us some tremendous tools.

Mm. We've got a data stack that is pretty, pretty incredible in terms of what it can do. Where I'm, I'm still in learning mode. Mm-hmm. In fact, I learn every single week something new- Mm ... um, as it relates to AI. We have Wednesday staff meetings, and we have, part of the agenda is we have two AI ambassadors in our office.

Oh, interesting. And they bring best practices to the table. And it could be a- anything as simple as, you know, your best prompt that delivered the, the best outcome. Yeah. Um, or it could be, you know, those tips and tricks to avoid pitfalls. And so we're- Yeah ... we're learning a lot from each other, I think, every day, and how each of us are individually using it and for what, right?

Yeah. Like, I don't, I still don't think I need it for- Getting organized or helping me craft emails or anything like that. But I think for longer form content it could be great for creating an outline or, you know, just really taking five minutes to plug in a couple of prompts might save me five hours of- Mm

thoughtful organization of, you know- Mm-hmm ... how my end product is gonna flow. Um, so that, I, I... that's how I'm using it, and I know there are a million other ways that it could be used. Yeah. I laughed, somebody asked me the other day, like, they, they were using it for a meal plan, a family meal plan. Oh. And I said, "How do you even...

Like, what?" I've only used it for work. I haven't used it really personally. Okay. So now it's the shift in my head of, like, well, how could I use it in my personal life? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Does it create a shopping list if I say, "I wanna make these five meals"? So now I'm, like, intrigued, and I wanna go- It, it does

research. We use it all the time. Yeah. Okay, good. Since we don't have any time at our house. But yeah, no, that's awesome. That's... Do you... So you b- going back to FH- Mm-hmm ... they, I'm assuming that they have their own custom LLM that they've had built on their content only that's firewalled and that nobody else has access to it, obviously.

Correct. Unless it's in the public domain, obviously. But, um, that's gotta be an incredible resource because it really does, it's learned on decades of material probably. And I think it's, you know, the output is only as good as the input. Yeah. So I think they've spent a really, you know, valuable amount of time, like, making sure that, you know, we're in a workspace with AI that's credible and- Yeah

you know. And it does pull from various LLMs, which is- Okay ... one of the, the tips I would love to pass along here, is there is no work product that should leave your hands from the AI machine- Yeah ... that doesn't have a human touch. So- Fact-checking. If it's using trends or statistics or policy- Mm ... something that's rooted in fact, please, please, please go and vet that.

Yeah, that sounds hard though. Just vet it. I don't have that kind of time. But the attribution is a huge part of that- Yes ... and that's why it's, it's, that has to be part of it so that you can go back, like you said, and check that- Correct ... graph or whatever data point has been brought up, so. Yes, because I think, I haven't seen it personally, but the h- hallucinations of, you know, filling in the gaps of- Yeah

of things. And I, we had somebody on the team say that it had asked, "Well, I really like this stat. Where'd you get it?" Mm-hmm. And it couldn't list a source. Oh, no. So I don't think, unless you go to the Google machine- ... and you actually find the study- Yeah ... or the report that stated that fact, do not use it.

Yeah, yeah. Um, I haven't really dabbled in graphics development or anything like that. It's really the written word. Yeah. So I'll let you know. You, you don't need to go into the graphics side. We, we got that. We're, we're- Thankfully. Yeah 'Cause, you know, no one needs four arms in an image- ... and yeah. It is frightening.

I mean, the, the innovations around even the video side of things, like, it's shocking, but still it's, you know, uh, there's that uncanny valley that still kind of sets in every once in a while- Mm-hmm ... that you're like, "Huh? No." But again, it always comes back to the, the human element. Yeah. I mean, even with that, like, we could have AI do a video talk track or a, you know, be a virtual spokesperson, but, but are we there yet?

Do we need it? You know? Let's kind of lead with that human- Those are sensitive frontiers that- Exactly ... I think we're quite a ways away from, I think- Yes ... on that AI front. I think so, too. So whe- when you started off in this industry- Mm-hmm ... what was o- one of the biggest, as you look back on it, in your two decades plus of your career, what, what's the most surprising thing now that you, that when you look back on?

You- Well, it's interesting, because I have worn a lot of hats. Yeah. But when I first got into this industry, I was just happy to be writing- Oh ... and writing for a living, right? Where it, you know, be it press releases or articles or plans even for clients, um, I love that part of the job. But what was surprising to me was how much business acumen you have to have in- Yeah

this industry, and it goes beyond just, you know, the pitch and the sell, if you will, but- Forecasting and estimating budgets for clients, and staff planning to those budgets, and there are spreadsheets involved. I never thought I'd be looking at a spreadsheet. I did not want to be in accounting, right? And so it surprised me, but in a, in a way that was really energizing because guess what?

I'm a planner, so I really- Ah ... I just thrive- Yeah ... on seeing it all on paper and knowing that I'm managing a budget, you know, to the dollar, and I'm managing my team against that, and we're making decisions, you know, day-by-day on how to keep everything on the, you know, straight and narrow with- Yeah ... with the finances.

So it's, it was interesting to me, FleishmanHillard has a very entrepreneurial spirit, and if you have a desire to go work on a big account, say it's a brand you love, right? Go get it. Yeah. They encourage you. Go get it. Interesting. Go after it. Bring it in, then you get to work on it. So we've always had that mindset of, "You know, I would really like to do this."

Well, what's stopping you? And, uh, and, and would you, you... Just go to, to go back to previous points in our conversation- Mm-hmm ... would you say that so much of that going and getting it is getting to know the people in those organizations and starting a, a relationship with them? Absolutely. Yeah. Going where you know they're gonna be, and, you know, showing up and, and being well-versed in the issues that matter to them- Mm

because then you can find the solutions to their challenges, right? Nice. And just be there, uh, in a way that provides value from the get-go. Yeah. Now, you know, uh, those big companies likely have other firms, so it's not like an overnight thing. Yeah. It could be a long-term relationship building process. Um, but at some point it'll, it'll pay off.

And, and your company fully encourages that at, at, at a reasonable scale, I would imagine. At a reasonable scale, yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. We talk about it, and we have calls every week with leadership and, you know, we talk about prospecting, we talk about growth. And, you know, we're very much rooted in growing our people and our clients and our business, and so it's, you know, it's something that we collaborate on regularly and we strategize.

And, you know, I would have never in a million years guessed that I'd be part of those conversations coming into PR. Hmm. Never thought. Yeah, it's like biz dev almost- Yeah ... right? I mean, it's, it- And I love it. I love- Yeah ... that part of it. It's, I think, what has kept me at Fleishman for 22 years. Huh. It's that collaboration and, and learning.

Yeah. And learning the, the, the business side of running an agency. If you were a marketing team of one, you had no access to a global superstar such as yourself- ... uh, and you were on your own, and you had... You're working for an organization or a company that needed- PR support, not so much marketing. We've talked about marketing a lot- Sure

on this show, but let's talk about PR. Where would you start? What, what... how would you approach that if, if, if leadership came to you and said, "I heard PR, what is it? Do it"? Uh, that's a simple way of- ... illustrating it, but. I think it would be really important to focus on three things that you can do really well.

Hmm. 'Cause 10 things- Hmm ... is probably spreading yourself too thin, but if you can find that sweet spot and deliver on that, and deliver on that so well that you become an invaluable partner, you can grow over time. But really just honing your craft to three things. Okay. So if that's media relations, great.

Hire me for that, and see what my capabilities are in that space, and then we can grow that over time. Okay. And does that become crisis preparedness? Maybe. But really making sure that you're intentional in what you're selling and what your services are, and where your strengths lie. Vanessa, if people would like to connect with you, I'm assuming you're on LinkedIn.

Is, uh- Yes, absolutely. Vanessa Supino at LinkedIn. Um, als- also can look up the FleishmanHillard website and, you know, reach out that way, but LinkedIn's probably the best way to find me, or the next PRSA event. Perfect. Come on over. This has been incredibly insightful, and I hope so for our audience as well.

Just to see the PR side of things is always fascinating. Of course, there's the Hollywood side of things, which is- That'll always keep you on your toes. Of course, yeah. Keep you in the, in the, in the news, as it were. But yeah, that... it's been really insightful, and I appreciate you being on the show. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me. This has been just as fun for me. Awesome. Yeah. Great. Thanks, everybody.

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