How to Make a Podcast

Welcome to the marketing team of one podcast where we have conversations about the issues one person marketing teams face when trying to meet their goals with limited time and budgets. Now, here's your host, Eric and Mike.

Thank you. Thank you. Hi, everybody. Thank you. Why? Hi everybody. How's it going? I'm Mike. I'm Eric. Howdy. How's the sandwiches? Tacos. Tacos. Tacos. Oh, oh, I didn't know there's tacos. Okay, that's, that's even better. That's big competition. Hey, before I get started, I just wanna say, and, and this will be a group project.

This man's turning 50 tomorrow. Why don't we just get 1, 2, 3. On a count of three. Just say, happy birthday, Mike. One, two, three. Happy birthday, Mike. Thank. Thank you. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, so we wanted to start a podcast. We did. What the heck? Well, why would you wanna start a podcast? I think podcasts are, uh, everywhere, right?

Everybody's doing a pod. Who here is not doing a podcast? Yeah. That was the question. Yeah. Who's not? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just a handful of people. So anybody aspire to do a podcast? All right. Nice. Okay, there we go. All right. Well, I, it's interesting 'cause we wanted to do a podcast for, well I wanted to do a podcast for a very, very long time.

Yeah. Um, and it was really, you know, there's a lot of different podcasts out there, so. When you're thinking about doing that podcast, you're obviously gonna start with something that is your genius or something in your, uh, sweet spot. So we, you know, our purpose for our podcast was all about business. It's a business podcast.

Obviously it's about marketing, but there's a lot of different ways you can do podcasts. You can do entertainment, you can do true crime. Oh, we thought about that really seriously. Yeah. For a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Design crime. Yep. That came up. Design crimes. That was a big one. That was a big one. Yep. Yeah, that kind of fell flat, but there's plenty of 'em out there.

Rich subject matter. But yeah, we decided to go with marketing because, uh, it related mostly closely to who we worked with on a regular basis. It was something that we've been working with those people for decades. Really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. The marketing team of one. Character avatar as it were. Um, so maybe Mike, you could talk a little bit about, um, why, why would we wanna do this thing?

Why would we want to do a podcast? I mean, Eric and I have been talking for a long time and for almost anybody, there's this promoting yourself trying to get new, new leads and everything, and. We tried a bunch of things throughout all the book, uh, everything in the book for a little while, but I do think back to, I think it was like 2012, Eric came to me and said, we should do a podcast.

I don't know if I've ever laughed so hard in my life, like. What would we do a podcast about? Like why would we do a podcast? But I wasn't in that frame of mind. I was, um, I was doing all client service stuff for page design at the time, and, uh, but I think every year, about every year you'd bring it up. But we really decided that what, what we really needed to do is build more awareness for who we were, um, and, um, really.

The one thing that we thought when we started thinking about the podcast is that we needed to give people an idea of who we were before they ever got on a sales call. Like we needed to let people know what our personalities were like, um, what it would be like working with us, and, um. Let's be, let's be frank.

Neither of us are great writers. We're not the best to convey our personalities. I hate Yeah. Through the written word. So, um, so we, we tried a bunch of things. We tried blog writing, we tried all these different like best practices you hear when it, when you talk about like promoting yourself. And we just, I don't know, we just kind of, this podcast thing started to become.

I think it seemed like a reasonable thing to, to try. Yeah. And I think there was this issue of trust that comes up a lot. A lot of people talk about trust, which is really hard to get, especially when you're trying to scale a company or try to reach out beyond your own network that you've built. And talking about that idea of authority is.

There's no better way to, than to put yourselves out there, create content of you speaking on video or whatever. People already start to feel comfortable talking to you, calling you. They maybe watch the podcast. That was a big part of it, was we wanted to do something that was visual so that people could relate to us directly and understand that when they work with us, it's gonna be this type of communication style.

Speak like this, they act like this. I don't know if that's a good thing, actually, now that I think of it, but, um, maybe people don't want to know how we act, but, uh, it does do a good job of validating, uh, who you are. Yeah. So we toyed around with this idea for many years, and then, I don't know, uh, well, I do know, uh, January, 2024.

There's kind of a big shift and, uh, where it became a little bit more serious. But, um, I. I wasn't really involved in that, so I'm gonna let Eric talk about that part of, part of the whole thing. Yeah. I think we have ebbs and flows in our business. Probably like everybody, where the beginning of the year is usually you're finishing up big projects.

The fall is insane. Winter's usually pretty insane. You get to the end of January, you get into. February, things start to slow down. The clients start to go to sleep a little bit. When you get to April, may, June, then they're all on vacation doing things with their kids and all that stuff. So I've, I, I said last January, January, 2024.

I'm gonna ha get ahead of this. I'm gonna start creating content. I'm gonna start writing blogs. As much as I hate writing, I'm gonna dive in and we're just gonna build up all this content and try to reach out, define who we are, position ourselves as clearly as possible, and try to build up the business using content marketing.

That lasted how many weeks, Mike? Three or four, I think. Yeah, maybe. I think I showed Mike like two or three blogs that. Fell pretty flat. So with that, I gave up and started working with Ashley. Ashley, our producer over here. She's the our producer over there. Yeah. Everybody give her a big round of applause.

She's a big part of the podcast. Yeah. She's uh. Shoulder to cry on sounding board. Lot of great ideas coming outta Ashley's brain. So she's been a wonderful partner in this and she and I started to work on this idea of the podcast. So what we did was we had originally started, we had built a website back in 20 20, 20 21, and we'd worked with a writer who.

Us. Jill Felty, I don't know if you've seen the podcast. She's been on about three times and she's done a really great job of helping us solidify this avatar of the marketing team of one. Most of our clients are small associations, maybe 10, 15, 20 people. And there's the one marketing person, they are doing the website.

They are getting new business cards, they are doing the social media, they are making the brochure, they're doing the social videos, they're doing everything marketing in this vast, you know, in these tiny little companies that, uh, they're the only person doing it. So a lot of our clients represent that and we thought.

This is who we should make this podcast for. So this is just one of those tips that I think kind of builds on that idea of positioning, where, pick an avatar, describe exactly who that person is, try to understand them. We had a really good understanding of who these people were so we could create content around them.

That resonated with 'em. And so that's eventually what we ended up calling. It was the marketing team of one podcast and, um. I just said if, if I can't write blogs, if I can't get content out that way, uh, we're just gonna use this podcast. Maybe take transcripts, maybe transform those into blogs, turn 'em into shorts, turn 'em into.

The thing about writing or doing a podcast is that you're creating content that's pretty long form. There's a lot of stuff in there and there's a lot of good gold that we end up coming up with, and it's really great stuff that you can use to build your own authority, build your own. You know, personality online so that you can do a good job of, uh, you know, securing or building trust with potentially new clients.

So, um, because of the challenges with our business, we thought, you know what? This is something that we can't turn off, that I'm gonna make a commitment to do this, whether Mike wants to be involved or not. I was just like, hell bent on doing this thing. Ashley and I worked hard, long, hard on getting things.

Figured out and done. And I just said, this is gonna be a lifestyle choice. And that's really what I've told a lot of people about making a podcast is when you're doing a podcast, understand that people make four or five episodes and a lot of times that's it. Then they get tired or they get distracted and then the podcast falls away and it's doesn't become important.

I mean, you looked a lot at in during that process of finding other Right, other similar podcasts and they all had that three to five. Episode count, and then they just died out. Very few of them go beyond that 10 mark. Yeah. So, yeah. And so I think we, we also, you had an interesting book. It was the NPR Guide to Podcasting.

Yeah. What was that book? Yeah. Yeah. It's a really good, really good book. So we use that as reference. Interested. Yeah. To talk about, um, it really is a very complete volume on how to do podcasting. So if anybody's interested, that's a great reference. Look it up on Amazon. Uh, but that really helped us understand that we need to commit to this.

And like we said, it's all in, so why not just put everything you've got into it? And, uh, so we did. So we started to build everything around it. We were moving furniture, we were buying some equipment. We were went out shopping. We went and got some plants. So we, we went out and bought all kinds of crazy stuff.

Uh, without talking to Mike. So. Um, that led to, uh, well, yeah. I mean, yeah, a dark, dark, dark. Wait. You, you have an affectionate name nickname for me, Mike. We call him Meeting Man, Mike, because he likes to pile on six or seven Zoom meetings a day every day. So it's hard to get a word in edgewise with this guy.

Yeah. So I think he got the sense that I might be a reluctant participant in, in all this. Absolutely. I knew it was, I, I saw things were happening, but they were through my fishbowl, um, office and, and uh, finally we had, we've. We set aside Fridays as business owners to try and work on the business instead of being like in the business and working with clients and everything.

And one of our Friday meetings we. Uh, we meet in what used to be our conference room and now looks like the makings of some kind of studio for something. And I'm looking around, I'm like, okay, we can't, we can't do our meeting. What is this? What are we doing? And, uh, well, I was reluctant. I'll, I'll, I'll say it.

I was like, well, everybody, well, I mean, not everybody, but a lot of people have podcasts. Why would, why should we do this? And Eric pitched the most beautiful. Scenario of exactly why we should be doing this. Wow. Beautiful. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I don't, yeah, it was, it was fantastic. It's like, here's all the reasons we stalled out on, on marketing ourselves before and laid out all a lot of the stuff we've talked about.

Right? We're not good writers. You know, um, he loves playing with, uh, as long as I've known him, he's worked with cameras and video and it's like, Hey, let's go with the path of least resistance. Let's do this. Oh, and we could do this. We can do the videos. We can post it here and here we can build our authority this way.

And after about what? 30 minutes. Yeah. Your pitch was about 30 minutes long. Yeah. And I just went, damn, I, I can't poke any holes in this. Let's do it. So it was a contentious meeting, let's just say. I was completely, completely converted. Yeah. Yeah. He, he made too much sense. So then we're all right, let's get rolling.

But I mean, there's a lot to do to get a podcast off the ground, right? Yeah, there was a lot. And that was great to get that confirmation. 'cause I did want you on the podcast, but I knew that, you know, you were super busy, so I knew that we had to. Build something that was gonna be, like I said before, a lifestyle choice, but also frictionless as much as you can make it frictionless.

Yeah. So that was also part of the plan when we went into this, was that we were gonna build a set that was gonna be permanent. We'd have all the tech set up. It was always gonna be there, always available where we could ideally. Flip a switch, sit down on there in our set and just start talking because we did have a lot of motivation and a lot of points that we wanted to talk about right out of the box.

I don't think we No had any lack of ideas of things that we had dealt with when working with our clients. Pain points they had pain points we might've had with vendors. Uh, pain points with platforms and software and things like that. So, I mean, there were some of our own annoyances in there too.

Opinionated takes on things. Yeah. Well, I, which was, that's what makes it good, which was fun. Yeah. Yeah. Those were some of the most fun, just like getting stuff off your chest and hopefully inspiring others too. And thank God it wasn't live. Like this podcast. Yeah. So we were, we could go back and edit as much as we wanted to edit ruthlessly.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the first few, we probably recorded for close to three hours probably. Yeah. And yeah, long meandering conversations. A lot of rabbit holes. I think we came up with maybe 20 concepts or pretty topics that we wanted to talk with, talk about right away. But that was great because there was no friction in it.

There was no struggle as far as. You know, like, you know, Jennifer talked about going into what you really, really love. I love technology and I want have wanted to do this for so long. So Ashley and I really worked hard on putting together the set, building a brand, uh, building out kind of the vision and the map for where we wanted to go with things.

And we wanted to, um. Just breathe as much life into this. But we knew that there was gonna be a digital side to this as well. So we came up with a calendar. We came up with topics. We came up with the brand and. The set had everything in there and we just said, okay, Friday mornings we're gonna record podcasts.

That's what we did then. And we stuck to that. We still do that to this day. So lifestyle choice. Lifestyle choice. Yeah. Back to the lifestyle choice. Yeah. It was never an option to quit or stop. So, like it or not, we're gonna be keeping this podcast going forever. Um, but then Mike took, took charge and he saw.

Where there were some gaps and he had a lot of great ideas around the digital side of things, building more of a big platform around it, so, well, the distribution side of things, right? Yeah. We, we decided that yes, primarily we're gonna do this on YouTube, and we want to make sure that we have the videos rolling and stuff like that.

But, you know, podcasts, a lot of people are in their car like, like, let's make sure that we have, we have that. Through the audio networks and we'd, we'd done things with a lot of clients before we'd actually helped a couple clients launch their own podcast. So we had a little bit of a playbook on what we would do to help promote that outside of YouTube or, um, Spotify or Apple.

And so we went forth, built a website, built an email, um, hooked in email marketing campaigns so we can, um, let everyone know, hey. New podcast is out, come, come built in some, um, freebies on the site. The idea more is kinda like lead generator things. Something that could be helpful for people. And so we started piecing all these things together.

The site you see here is pretty much the result of that, that we put every, we wanted to have a, a home we could point everybody to, to. Get anything related to the podcast. And so a really good piece. Also build some analytics around it so that we could kind of understand how things were performing. You get a certain vanity metrics off of YouTube, but we knew that we were also doing audio only and harder to get some of those metrics off of that platform.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um. Yeah, so we got, so we've got our brand, we've got our content strategy. We've got, um, basically everything that we would need to do a podcast. But then I guess we needed to start recording, right? That was, I guess, yeah, that was the big thing, right? That was a painful few moments there when we turned the cameras on and just stared blankly into a camera like.

Uh, okay. What, what are we gonna talk about? You know, you kind of go dead inside for a little bit there. Um, but we managed to do some practice runs that went way off the rails. Pretty funny conversations that nobody will ever see. Uh, but they were really. Important for us to kind of start to build rapport.

So if you're doing a podcast with a teammate or a two person podcast or a co-host on the podcast, uh, that's another thing I'd recommend is like doing a bunch of practice runs so that you know, I mean, our relationship on the podcast is slightly different than in real life. Uh, only slightly though, not that different, I guess.

Yeah. Maybe it's just starting to come. But if you're trying to hammer this out with another person and everything like that, um, boxing gloves, the head gear, like helmet, that might come in handy a little bit. 'cause yeah, it's, uh, there's just like, here's, here's how I wanna do it. Well, here's how I want to do it.

How do you find that alignment and stuff like that. So we did, we did, we didn't come to blows, but I, I don't know if we had that stuff, maybe we would've, I don't, I don't know. That's why we don't have that stuff at the studio. Yeah. Because yeah, it would probably, Mike and I are great, uh, teammates in the business.

We're awesome partners together. Uh, but our strength comes from our wide differences of approach and opinion on things. And that did lead to, I would say at the beginning, it made it a little bit contentious at times. Yes, yes. I had wonderful ideas, of course, like all of my ideas, uh, and Mike was the. I'm, I don't know how whole poker really Contrarian.

Contrarian. There's a diplomatic way of saying it. Yeah. So there was some arguments that we had. People had to go on walks. But it was really helpful because I think the strength and what Mike did was help bring focus to some of my craziness and my craziness. Made all of his boring ideas important. And and exciting.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And that's why we're a good Yep. Partner. Okay. Exactly. Um. So the first thing that we've really to, to stick to this idea of committing to getting a podcast out there and having it live, breathe on its own for perpetuity, is I said we have to have at least eight or 10 of these things in the can.

Yeah. Ready to go. We picked out a schedule. We're gonna launch every two weeks. We're gonna put out a podcast, which seemed to be a pretty frequent, you know. Pretty decent schedule, I think, without driving us crazy. Like if we did more, we probably would've. Yeah. We had talked about doing it every week, but the the, the labor it took to get Yeah, just one out every two weeks is a lot.

And so we did that. We had eight of 'em in, and at first, uh, Ashley was working the cameras and all the audio, which she still does to this day. She is an amazing help keeping us on point, listening to what we're talking about, having a circle back. She's done a great job of helping kind of corral the actual content on.

The podcast over and over again. So she's, she was critical in doing that, and that was fun to see her kind of really step into that role. And then I was doing the editing, which. If you've ever edited video and you gotta whittle down a two hour conversation, that's not a lot of fun. It's pretty soul sucking and very difficult for me anyway, I guess.

I like to film, but I don't like to edit. And so, uh, but I did edit the first like 20 episodes, which I thought was important because it was critical to kind of build the look and feel for the podcast. Uh, and establish the style I have, you know, we're designers, so we have very. Critical eye on things. You know where cameras are, where we are, where our heads are at, things like that.

So I wanted to engineer that so that we had a full body of work that everybody could take a look at. And then if we did want to get another editor involved, we could hand it over to them. Yeah, and they would have this body of work that they could refer to to work on. So that's what we did, and that's how we started it.

We went in every Friday, I think we started March of 2024. We started to record things. Yep. We had to put together like a little YouTube intro so that when people go onto YouTube channel, they can see a little video of us talking. So we had to produce that first, and then we. Released our first episode on June 13th, 2024 was when the first one went out.

Yep. So we did that and then we had those eight, I think in the Can they in the can. And then we kept committing to every. I mean, almost for a while there we were recording every week, but only releasing every two weeks. So we had a good backlog. We had a good, it actually helped release some of the pressure of like needing to be there every Friday.

Eventually, like especially as the year went on in our. Client schedules got busier and everything we felt like we could, oh well we've got, we've got all this in the can. We've got, I think we sat down around July and realized when we mapped it out, we were, we had everything for the rest of the year. Yeah.

At that point. Yeah. We were pretty good. Yeah. So, so that was good that we kind of doubled down on the, um, committing to that lifestyle change and doing it every Friday. And um, yeah, so we released all those and then, I dunno, by December we had. How many followers on YouTube? I mean, it was like more than five, maybe six.

I don't know. It was a lot. It was eight. Eight, eight. Yeah, so we decided that, so we, we had a meeting late December and we're like, all right. We've been doing this for six months, six eight months. Alright. Are we committing to this lifestyle change? Are we gonna keep doing this? What do we want outta this?

And we all, we all agreed this is something we really needed to do, but we, we saw from what we were doing, we, we could see that some episodes were did better than others. We were looking at our, um, mostly, I think we mostly look at YouTube now. Yeah, that's the metric that, yeah, that, I mean, almost everything's YouTube focused at this point.

We still do the audio, but we look mostly at YouTube. Um, we looked at, okay, what worked, what are, where are the ones where we're having more fun? And, um, we came away with a few like. Changes we wanted to make going into the next grant. You know, as we start recording new ones and everything, um, one thing that we really realized is that we get tired of each other's voices and everything.

And so, and we loved having guests on and so bringing in guests was another, was a key strategy that we wanted to do. We wanted to make sure that our. That our voices weren't too repetitive and that we were bringing in more perspectives from other people who, especially the marketing teams, the one who were kind of in this, you know, and they can talk from their own personal experience.

So that was one that was a big kind of content change that we made. Another one is. Though we try, um, we try and get it shorter. We noticed that some of 'em, what's our longest one? It's close to two hours, right? It's Well, an hour and a half. Hour and a half. 1 31, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody too long. Way too.

Nobody watched that one. So shorter. Shorter, shorter. Like ruthlessly edit. So we really try and get those down. Ideally between that like 30 and 40 minutes to, uh, we wanna make sure that we're being a little more ruthless about that. Um, the other thing that we did is we realized that in looking at our existing.

Videos, we, um, YouTube being like the second biggest search engine in the world, right? Like, we should be like applying some of these like SEO techniques to our videos. And so we went back and a lot of these, uh, and a lot of our episodes, we used to title them episode four. Uh, I can't even remember what it, it really only works in the Star Wars realm, right?

Yes. Episode four, A new hope. So, so we started, um, changing all of our titles to more, um, problem aware, um, titles to make sure that if people are searching for things on YouTube that were there and that pool, and, um, that, that was a huge change because we didn't just, um, we started, you can see in our analytics, it went directly from, um.

Most people that were actually viewing when we had those eight followers, we could see that most people that were viewing our YouTube videos was through this site. It was like through embeds and everything. We weren't getting any pickup from YouTube. But what we realized after we started making that change is that, um.

We were being found in the suggested videos a lot more. We were looking, we were showing up in search results a lot more. So that was a big strategic shift that we made. Um, and it was more of a technical thing. It wasn't content related, but it was a, it made a big, big difference. It was the title optimizations that we went through.

It was also the thumbnails, because that's something as you watch YouTube and you can see the suggested feed, um. You've got like an inch and a quarter by half an inch tall, something like that. And so we really tried to optimize the thumbnail game a little bit too, so that we made 'em a little bit more consistent.

Got the wording on those, a lot more punchy and, and we used a lot more red. It stands out. Um, I also, I, I try to go to VidCon every year, which is the big YouTube conference down in Anaheim, and talk to a lot of people about podcasts down there and realize that business podcasts are really popular and they're really hard to compete with.

So. Um, there's games you can play and a lot of 'em, you gotta start paying money to get things moving. But honestly, the ROI on doing that is, is a challenge. And there's other strategies that were outlined to me that kind of talk about the guest thing. That's, that's a big play if you're trying to move the needle on your podcast.

Have intriguing guests that have a big audience because they're gonna drag their audience over to your audience. And that was something that we. Our, we saw a lot of success in that actually, if you've seen, a couple of weeks ago we had Doug Aguiar, who was the, um, creative director, no, CMO, for, uh, the Golden One Center, uh, golden One Credit Union.

Uh, he did basically the, the campaign launch for Golden one. That, that's, we dragged his audience over into our audience, and I think that video's performed better than just about any of our other videos. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, that's a pretty good tip too, is, you know. Bringing in other guests, especially in the business side of world, because it's good to have that variety of perspective and see how other people, people wanna see how other people do their jobs, especially if it's very pointed at marketing or it's very pointed at, you know, some specific task.

Obviously when you guys are scrolling, Instagram or YouTube, you're always looking or clicking on those things as you know. Top five tips, illustrator, top five video tips, you know, those kind of things. It's like how to, how to, how to, and bringing in those guests is a really good way to, you know, bring a new lifeline into your, into your podcast.

All right, so we did all that. We launched in January of this year, and we did see some gains. I mean, it was, I mean, yeah, I mean, we've. I mean, just it, I, this unfortunately isn't a, you build it, they will come type situation, you know? No. Like we, I think originally when we, the first, what the first batch, the pre December, 2024, we'd probably get 20, 25 views per video or something like that.

Not a huge one. I'm sure it's all our parents and, uh, yeah. And family members and stuff. Paid, yeah. Audience. But, um, no, I mean now we're, we're averaging 150 or more. Per video. Um, it's still baby steps. I mean, really It's not, it's a slow burn. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but what I, we look at it today, I mean, as we're shifting, you know, like we like.

That, that doesn't seem like a lot, but so why? Why would we keep doing this? Why? You know, like, and I think we've really set forth like we love this lifestyle choice we've made. I think a lot of the stuff, the conversations we have, either in the preparation for a talk Yeah. Or actually doing the talks has like unlocked so many.

Like it's opened so many doors for us mentally and mindset shifts and everything. They go directly into the business. So either they, they go into our work at page design or they go into, um, brainstorming for future future shows, and it becomes this little bit of a flywheel that we can keep rolling with.

So the, the topic generation, the topic brainstorming is not nearly as, um. Cumbersome. Is it there? There was a dip there where once we got through all our annoyances and stuff that was top of mind, there's a little bit of a dip. We're like, all right, what are we gonna talk about today? Um, yeah, and we kind of, but now, now we've got the flywheel going, so it's a lot easier for us to come up with topics and, and, um, and coming my other things that came up.

Yeah. And that's something to think about when you're. Think you're at the end of the content road and you don't have anything more to talk about. Go back and look at your old content, because I think what we've done is we've gone back and mined previous conversations and found a little, little niche in what we talked about and like, oh wait, we can go down that.

Road and that opens up a whole universe of other conversation. Yeah. And so there's never a loss for stuff to, for us to start to, to talk about, because we go back and look at some of that previous content. We have a really easy keyword to look for. Like if we, we transcribe all of our videos and everything.

And one thing that we can look at is, um, oh, we could probably do a whole podcast about that. Yeah. That we just look back in the tri, uh, the transcripts. Oh, hey, there's, hey, we said that earlier. Here we go. Here we go. So there's the thing. So yeah. Um, what do I mean? Business case for a podcast? I think we're starting to talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. Like Mike said, it's, it's a slow burn. It's not something, again, po You know, business podcasts are very. Saturated. It's hard to break out of that. I think the ones that have broken out of that maybe do a lot more frequent uploads, maybe daily. I'm thinking of like The Lemonade Stand is a good marketing slash business podcast that has hundreds of thousands of subscribers to it, but they're doing a show like all the time.

It's a it. That's their only job. Yeah. Um, so trying to, trying to make a case for that is a, is a very difficult thing. And understand that it is gonna be a slow burn and try different things. Like we're always trying to optimize, just shift things ever so slightly. Still try to stay on brand, but strategically try to move into slightly different angles or topics or make refinements to the actual production itself.

So, um, moving forward, I think we're gonna keep. Definitely working on getting more and more guests on the show. Uh, reach out to bigger and bigger, more and more, you know, uh, relevant people to talk to about what we're doing. Yeah. Um, always try to keep it shorter and shorter and shorter, but I think those are the main things that we're continuing to work.

I think the one thing that really opened my eyes to it is that I don't think podcasting alone is a great, um. Business development strategy, like getting, like, unless you can commit, like you're talking about, to being, like being a content creator, I don't think either of us consider ourselves content creators.

This is a thing that we do to, to help, you know, supplement what we're doing. But, um, yeah, I, what. We see this as so it's so vital to, um, as a ground floor, a foundational thing to other stuff that we do. And so, um, that's why we're committed to keep doing it. Yeah. No, I don't wanna point fingers, but Well, all right.

Oh, let's do this. I think that's it. Yeah, we've, we have nothing else to give. Thanks for your patience and everything. Our love to you. Thank you so much everybody. Thank everybody. We appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in. For more information and other episodes, subscribe to the marketing team of one podcast on YouTube, apple, or Spotify podcast networks.

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